The Book of the Wars of the Lord

The Book of Wars of the Lord.


"In the year like 9000 B.C., The Lord called forth William Wallace from Waheb in Suphah, who lead an uprising against the cruel Todd of wadis of the Arnon, And the slope of the wadis That extends to the site of Ar, And leans to the border of Moab.”, who wishes to inherit the crown of Waheb in Suphah for himself. When he was a young boy, William Wallace's father and brother, along with many others, lost their lives trying to free Waheb in Suphah. Once he loses another of his loved ones, William Wallace begins his long quest to make Waheb in Suphah free once and for all, along with the assistance of Robert the Bruce. William Wallace yelled freedom and that there will be wars and rumors of wars. Thus concludes The Book of Wars of the Lord"

There it is. You've now read The Book of Wars of the Lord. It MUST be the long lost Book of Wars of the Lord. IT Just HAS to be authentic. Why? Because I said so. If you disagree, it MUST be because you're denying scripture as Numbers CLEARLY is referencing this text see:

Numbers 21:14-15

Therefore it is said in the Book of the Wars of the Lord,
“Waheb in Suphah,
And the wadis of the Arnon,
15 And the slope of the wadis
That extends to the site of Ar,
And leans to the border of Moab.”

There you have it. The Book of Wars of the Lord is 100% Authentic. This here proves it. It mentions "“Waheb in Suphah, And the wadis of the Arnon, And the slope of the wadis That extends to the site of Ar, And leans to the border of Moab" EXACTLY like Numbers does, so OBVIOUSLY  NUMBERS felt it important to quote it as authoritative. Plus you can clearly see that The Messiah quoted from it:

 Matt 24:6 You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.

So, you know, Yeshua CLEARLY believed that William Wallace was a prophet of God and that HE here is vouching for this text AS if it were scripture itself. NOW I'm sure that it was the Catholics or the Mormons that removed it from the Bible ... for some reason... probably because they don't want you rising up against the race of lizard people using gay bombs on the tap water. Now if you're trying to tell me that this is NOT the authentic Book of Wars of the Lord mentioned in scripture because this is only a paragraph ripped right from the IMDB of Braveheart with lines spliced in from Numbers, then you must be mistaken because at the time Numbers was written IMDB didn't exist.
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Why does this post exist? This post was written expressly to highlight that there is a faction of people that are holding to the heretical book of Enoch and elevating it to the point of scripture, Many going so far as filtering their understandings of the scriptures themselves through the false books.
Many of these people go so far to justify what is at its core, adding and taking away from the word of God ( wittingly or not) by suggesting that Scripture points to the book we know as Enoch. By saying that Jude is quoting Enoch, and then citing a false book that was written years apart merely because they have similarity does not equal authenticity(also the "cited" text isnt even a whole verse).  Just because I say that the Savior and William Wallace both say that there will be wars and rumors of wars does not mean that A) William Wallace ever said that, and B) that even if he had, that the Messiah was referencing it to give it merit instead of stating an independent truth.

119 Ministries does an excellent job on this topic and points out that though Paul used a pagan poem about zeus to convey a Biblical concept, that in NO means canonizes the Pagan poem cited.
For more examples of Bad Logic, click this link


***Warning, this post is not a doctrine but an illustration of a faulty reasoning and should only be used as such****

Tyler Sposite's breakdown of Sons of God

by Tyler Sposite

I've been doing alot of study on the topic of "Satan" and "fallen angels" in scripture, and want to publish my findings for others to consider. I've decided to break this down into a series of write-ups, since there are multiple facets to this topic, and really alot of bases to cover. So, with that being said, we're going to start with examining who the "Sons of God" are in Genesis 6 and Job 1-2, & 38. This is because of the fact that the primary basis for the doctrine of "fallen angels" is founded upon Genesis 6 and the premise that Angels are sons of God.

For the sake of transparency, I will state at the beginning that I do not believe that the 'sons of God' in Genesis 6 or in the book of Job are Angels. This viewpoint has typically been labeled the "Sethite" view. I'm sure that most of my readers are familiar with the controversy over the proper interpretation of this passage and are therefore familiar with both proposed interpretations. However, I'm writing this firstly for those who might not be familiar with the issue, or who are undecided on how to understand it, and secondly for the sake of publicly and officially stating my own view on the subject, as a basis for the rest of the articles that will be written in this series.

What I intend to show here is both that, not only is there no basis for concluding that angels are the sons of God in Genesis chapter 6, but also to show that the concept of God's covenant children intermarrying with those outside of covenant is actually a common theme in the Tanakh, and this passage is simply the first reference to it.

So then, let's take a look at this text:

Genesis 6:1-8 KJV And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, (2) That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. (3) And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. (4) There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. (5) And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. (6) And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. (7) And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. (8) But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

The objections to the "fallen angel" interpretation are rather simple and straightforward, they are the following:

1. The word MaLaK (Angel/Messenger) is never used in Genesis chapter 6

The first problem with suggesting that the sons of God in this passage are angelic beings is that angels are never actually mentioned anywhere in the text. This is a very basic point, but one well worth considering, because this means that the context must then establish who or what the 'sons of God' are; given the fact that Angels are never actually mentioned, it seems like a mere assertion to claim that they must be Angels by default

2. The text consistently shows God's anger towards MAN

The next issue is that, right after we are told about the 'sons of God' marrying the 'daughters of men' in verses 1-2, verse 3 shows that God is grieved with mankind over this event:

Genesis 6:3 KJV And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

The word used for "man" in this chapter is ADAM, denoting human beings. Everytime the word "man" or "men" appears in Genesis with reference to Angels the author uses the word IYSH (denoting a male figure). Thus the immediate context strongly suggests that it was human beings who were involved in the event, rather than angels and humans. This is strengthened by the fact that all throughout the rest of the passage, we continuously see God being angry with MAN, and MAN's sin being great upon the earth, etc. etc. It is always ADAM that is mentioned within the text as being at fault.

3. Verse 4 plainly says that there were giants upon the earth BEFORE the sons of God married the daughters of men

Verse 4 says:

Genesis 6:4 KJV There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

This might be the most overlooked verse in this entire debate, in this writer's opinion; look very carefully at what this verse says, it says:

1. There were giants in the earth in those days

“those” is a pronoun, and requires an antecedent, what is the antecedent within the context? Clearly it refers back to verse 1 where we read about mankind multiplying upon the earth, and then verse 4 goes on to say:

2. and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them...

Notice, the text says "also AFTER that, WHEN the sons of God came in...", which is described in verse 2; so the text actually tells us that there were "giants" on the earth BEFORE the sons of God married the daughters of men. This poses a very obvious problem for the "fallen angel" interpretation, for under this viewpoint, the "giants" are supposed to have been a hybrid breed of angels and humans, yet Moses clearly intimates for us that this "giants" were on earth prior to such an event taking place!

Having provided these three basic points of argumentation, I would like to expound upon some other parts of the passage which are worthy of comment. Regarding the word "giants", this term has been variously understood by commentators. The word "Nephilim" comes from the word "NaPhaL" meaning literally "to fall", and has been understood by some as having reference to these men being "fallen" in the sense of Apostasizing (similar to how the "fallen angel" proponents understand the word); others have interpreted it as referring to men who would "fall upon" others, in the sense of attacking and oppressing them. From this interpretation we derive the definition of "bully" or "tyrant". The translation of "giants" seems to come from the Greek translation of Genesis 6:4, which actually uses the word γιγαντες, literally meaning "earth-born". The only other time the Hebrew word occurs is in Numbers 13:33, and based upon it's usage there, it could denote men of large stature, or fierce/mighty men. The English translation "giant" can encompass both or either/or. In any case, though, neither of these interpretations of the word require any sense of these "giants" having been the product of angels and human beings.

Another thing to address is the term "sons of God" itself. Many people opposed to the Sethite view will often make the claim that if the "Sons of God" here are regenerate believers, then it seems improper for the author to refer to them as "sons of God" if they were apostasizing from the faith by marrying unbelievers. While it is true that the term "sons of God" and "children of God" are often used in scripture, particularly in the Apostolic writings (NT), to refer to saved and regenerate persons, the term also seems to be applied in a more general sense to God's covenant people as a whole, which can consist of saved and unsaved persons. For instance, in Exodus chapter 4, the nation of Israel is collectively referred to as God's "son":

Exodus 4:22-23 KJV And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn: (23) And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

Clearly this has reference to Israel's covenant obligation to worship YHVH due to the covenant which he had made with their fathers. We find something similar in the book of Deuteronomy:

Deuteronomy 14:1 KJV Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.

This scripture refers to the covenant community as a whole as the "children of the LORD", I'm not aware of anyone who would claim that every single Israelite amongst them was a regenerate individual.

Likewise in Psalm 82, when God is condemning the corrupt judges of Israel, he calls them "sons of God", but in the context they are clearly not regenerate nor saved individuals. Thus, we can see, that the term "sons of God" can be used simply to refer to members within the covenant community, without reference to individual regeneration.

The other thing that I want to show (as stated at the beginning) is that Genesis 6 is simply the first in a number of instances in scripture where God's covenant children apostasize due to intermarriage with unbelievers. We find this happening again in the book of Numbers:

Numbers 25:1-3 KJV And Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab. (2) And they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods: and the people did eat, and bowed down to their gods. (3) And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel.

 

We see in this passage the exact same thing happening as in Genesis chapter 6, God's covenant people are joining themselves to those outside of the covenant community and are apostasizing as a result. God also forbade Israel from marrying specific Canaanite nations for this very reason:

Deuteronomy 7:1-4 KJV When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; (2) And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: (3) Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. (4) For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.

This is the exact thing that happened to Solomon, who is another example of what we're talking about:

1 Kings 11:1-4 KJV But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites; (2) Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love. (3) And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart. (4) For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.

 

The same thing happened again when Israel returned from exile:

 

Ezra 9:1-2 KJV Now when these things were done, the princes came to me, saying, The people of Israel, and the priests, and the Levites, have not separated themselves from the people of the lands, doing according to their abominations, even of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Egyptians, and the Amorites. (2) For they have taken of their daughters for themselves, and for their sons: so that the holy seed have mingled themselves with the people of those lands: yea, the hand of the princes and rulers hath been chief in this trespass.

 

Thus we see this pattern throughout the scriptures, God's people always being tempted to be led astray by unbelievers, mixing truth with a lie, belief with unbelief, etc. etc. This understanding of Genesis chapter 6 perfectly accords with this common theme.

 

In summary, what we see in Genesis chapter 6 is God's covenant people intermarrying with unbelievers; there was violence and tyranny in the earth during this time; God is grieved and angry with mankind as a result of their sin and apostasy, and decides to punish them for it; one man, however, amongst mankind, is found faithful to God, namely Noah.

 

There is simply nothing within the text of Genesis 6 which even hints at Angels reproducing with human women. Such an idea is contextually and exegetically indefensible. The only other hint that the Book of Genesis gives us is the fact that there were men from Seth's line who were "calling upon the name of YHVH" in Genesis 4:26. It's really not that difficult, based upon this, and the other evidence already provided, to suppose that these are humans being spoken of in Genesis 6.

The sons of God in the book of Job

 

The next set of verses to address are those found within the book of Job. We will begin by looking at the verses in chapters 1 & 2 which mention the sons of God:

Job 1:6 KJV Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

We are again told in chapter 2:

Job 2:1 KJV Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

The contention is that Job 1 & 2 are presenting a scene in heaven amongst God's heavenly counsel, called the "sons of God". The reasons for this supposition will be addressed below:

1. The sons of God are said to present themselves before YHVH

This argument is a rather simple one. The sons of God are said to be before the LORD, therefore they are in heaven, and therefore they are angels. In response to this argument, I offer two points:

1. The term 'sons of God' is uniformly applied to human beings in scripture. This was already touched upon in our previous study on Genesis 6, however there are several other passages which could be given, in both the Old and New Testaments, to prove this. Even those who promote the 'fallen angel' doctrine will agree with this point

2. Not only are human beings referred to as sons of God, but human beings are frequently said to appear before, stand before, and be in the presence of YHVH. Here are some examples, accompanied with explanations as to what it means to be before the LORD:

Exodus 23:16-17 KJV And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field. (17) Three times in the year all thy males shall appear before the Lord GOD.

And again:

Exodus 34:24 KJV For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year.

Deuteronomy 31:10-11 KJV And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of every seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles, (11) When all Israel is come to appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing.

Psalms 84:4-7 KJV Blessed are they that dwell in thy house: they will be still praising thee. Selah. (5) Blessed is the man whose strength is in thee; in whose heart are the ways of them. (6) Who passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools. (7) They go from strength to strength, every one of them in Zion appeareth before God.

What do all of these passages have in common? They all show that "appearing before the LORD" signifies a time when the people of God are to gather together in worship and religious service. The word used in all of these passages is ra'ah, and in it's Niphal form properly means "to appear" or "to present oneself". The word used in the verses in Job is yatsab and means the same thing; we also have verses in scripture which use this same word in reference to human beings:

Joshua 24:1 KJV And Joshua gathered all the tribes of Israel to Shechem, and called for the elders of Israel, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers; and they presented themselves before God.

1 Samuel 10:19 KJV And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands.

In Joshua 24, the purpose of the Israelites gathering together was to make a covenant agreement that they would exclusively worship YHVH; the purpose of them gathering before YHVH in 1 Samuel 10 was to determine who should be their king. Thus we can see that to "stand before" or "present oneself" before YHVH in scripture means to gather together for worship, to serve, to make a covenant, or to discuss, perform, or determine any other divine matters relating to the true God and his service.

With all of these examples from scripture, then, we can clearly see that there is nothing at all strange about understanding the sons of God presenting themselves before YHVH as human beings gathered together in his service. There is, however, some more interesting detail on this point which is worth noting. This will be talked about more in the next point.

2. The text says that Satan was amongst the sons of God

We further read in the text that "Satan" (the adversary) also came to present himself before the LORD:

Job 2:1 KJV Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Now, this next point has some overlap with the response which is to be given to the next argument, namely, that because "Satan" is said to have been there amongst the sons of God, that surely this must necessitate that they were not human beings, on the supposition that "Satan" in this text is a supernatural entity. To this I offer the following considerations:

Firstly, as pointed out previously, notice that the text says "Satan" ALSO came to present himself before YHVH. What this clearly suggests, given the clear usage of the language elsewhere in scripture, as demonstrated above, is that this "Satan" was also assembled for public service. Even if we were to grant that this was describing an assembly of angels, this would still clearly be the case. And while I grant that it is certainly possible for an angel to be present amongst an assembly of believers, the fact is that the word "satan" simply means "adversary", and the text of Job in point of fact does NOT actually identify who "Satan" is in this text. Thus, it could be understood of an Angel amongst the sons of God, or of a fellow human being. Given the fact that this "adversary" is also amongst the sons of God to present himself before the LORD, I would submit that this was probably the latter.

Secondly, consider what the text says of "Satan":

Job 1:12 KJV And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Genesis 4:16 KJV And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

Even the language of "going out from the presence of the LORD" is used of human beings in scripture. The same words are used in each case in the Hebrew text as well.

So then, as we can see, there is nothing within the language used which inherently requires us to take the position that the "sons of God" or "Satan" are angelic beings, in fact given the clear scriptural information presented, we have plenty of reason for thinking that these are NOT angelic or supernatural beings at all, but rather humans. Once again, however, even if Satan is a supernatural being in this text, it still doesn't follow from this that the 'sons of God' are not human beings, since an Angel can still be amongst an assembly of humans.

3. The sons of God are said to have been present at creation

The next verse for us to consider is Job 38:7:

Job 38:7 KJV When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

It is rather obvious what the contention is, namely, that God here says that the 'sons of God' were present during the time of creation, the Angels were present at creation, therefore the Angels are sons of God. However, to begin with, let us point out that the one speaking here is God, not the author of the book of Job. The reasoning for pointing this out is that just because the same phrase is used by the author at the beginning of the book, does not mean that the creator himself, when speaking to Job, can't be using it differently. The next observation to point out, is that the context shows God questioning Job about the creation:

Job 38:4-6 KJV Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. (5) Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? (6) Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Next, notice also that it is specifically the stars which are referred to as the sons of God in this text, and we are told that the stars shouted together and sang for joy. Someone may object at this point, that the fact that the creator says the stars 'shouted' and 'sang' surely indicates that persons are intended; to which I respond, that this does not follow at all, for one would first have to presuppose that "morning stars" refer to "angels", and then read that supposition back into the verse, in which case said person would be engaging in circular reasoning. Secondly, that when dealing with wisdom literature, it is not at all uncommon to come across poetic or figurative language, and in fact to any unbiased reader, if they see "morning stars" called God's "sons", and read that they "shouted" and "sang", the natural impression would surely be that the speaker is using poetic language. On top of that, however, we can offer other examples from scripture, where the authors say nearly the exact same thing, as the verse in question does, for instance:

Psalms 19:1-5 KJV To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. (2) Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. (3) There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. (4) Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, (5) Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.

David here speaks of Day and Night speaking and uttering their voice, he also compares the sun to a bridegroom rejoicing

Psalms 148:1-4 KJV Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the LORD from the heavens: praise him in the heights. (2) Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts. (3) Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light. (4) Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.

This text is especially significant because it explicitly distinguishes between the angels of God and the stars of light, David commands the sun and moon to praise God, and the stars to do likewise

So then, it is not unusual at all, for a writer to speak figuratively of the heavenly bodies shouting or singing, let alone God himself, who created them to begin with! As to the stars being called God's "sons", this is easily accounted for via the following scripture:

James 1:17 KJV Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

God is called the Father of lights, I wonder where James got the idea for this phrase? Perhaps Job 38:7!

The Bible explicitly says that Angels are not sons of God

Now that we have dealt with the verses in Genesis 6 and Job 1, 2, and 38, I want to make one last argument showing definitively that Angels cannot be the sons of God in these passages. My argument is based upon the following scripture:

Hebrews 1:4-6 KJV Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. (5) For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? (6) And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

The author of Hebrews expressly says that God never called any Angel his son. The primary response that I've heard given to this verse (and the one which I used to give when I believed in the 'fallen angel' doctrine) is that this is only referring to the specific prophecies that are being quoted from. However, this misses the entire point that the author is making. The author is establishing Christ's superiority over all of God's creation, including the Angels, on the basis that he is God's unique Son who had inherited his Father's works. This is what chapters 1-2 explicitly deal with. The whole point of him quoting those verses is to show that it is Christ, NOT the angels, who is a "son" in relation to God. We are also counted as "sons" which is why Jesus is called the "firstborn" (Hebrews 1:6) and why we are called his "brethren" (Hebrews 2:11-12; 17).

So, along with all of the points made earlier, this passage of scripture should seal the deal. The Bible plainly states that no Angelic being was ever called God's son, and never had that relationship to God, and I have demonstrated that the two places in the Bible which are used to prove that they are sons of God do not require us to come to that conclusion at all. I hope that this has helped someone better understand the issue, as well as the reason why I can no longer accept this doctrine on the basis of Scripture.

**Correction**

So lately I've been getting some heat about not taking correction. This would bother me a lot as a big character flaw if it weren't for the people trying to correct me and what they're trying to correct me on.
If there is a man speaking in the name of Yah and prophesying that exact events will unfold, and they do not, then he is a false prophet and should be addressed as such. So, if I speak up on that, and people take more issue with the fact that I have highlighted a false prophet than the fact that they're embracing someone that was best arrogantly speaking of behalf of God in a vanity fueled false tirade or at worst deliberately leading people into falsehood, then I have a hard time taking that correction.

 "Then they took the ox which was given them and they prepared it and called on the name of Baal from morning until noon saying, “O Baal, answer us.” But there was no voice and no one answered. And they leaped about the altar which they made. 27 It came about at noon, that Elijah mocked them and said, “Call out with a loud voice, for he is a god; either he is occupied or gone aside, or is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and needs to be awakened.”- 1 Kings 18

 Many of these people that accept falsehoods and turn aside to myths become angry when I speak against lies. I imagine that they'd say to Elijah that he has a wayward spirit because he mocked their falsehoods. Recently I went a few rounds with people that were hellbent on adding entire books to the Bible. They went through elaborate lengths to justify conspiracy and how these myths should be Scripture. When I spoke against the the ideas they were bringing forward and not an individual, it was deemed that I was the problem and in need of correction for not fully embracing those who insist on false doctrines.

"I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book"- Rev. 2

"Everything they do is just to show off in front of others. They even make a big show of wearing Scripture verses on their foreheads and arms, and they wear big tassels for everyone to see. 6 They love the best seats at banquets and the front seats in the meeting places. 7 And when they are in the market, they like to have people greet them as their teachers.8 But none of you should be called a teacher. You have only one teacher, and all of you are like brothers and sisters". - Matt 23

I don't care what you saw on youtube that convinced you that Giants DNA is half human and half angel and therefore you feel compelled to insert  a doctrine of demons from a false book that shares its name with a prophet. You can clothe yourself with spiritual apparel and you can toss Hebrew words, but if you're slipping heresy in with the truth because it gives you an Gnostic sense of superiority then you're not of the brethren. You should not be a teacher, and this verse is warning me not to accept that. You're warned about in the scriptures. I'm not innocent either, I know that. When the word says:

"Stay away from stupid and senseless arguments. These only lead to trouble, 24 and God’s servants must not be troublemakers. They must be kind to everyone, and they must be good teachers and very patient.25 Be humble when you correct people who oppose you. Maybe God will lead them to turn to him and learn the truth" -2 tim 2

...I tend to be patient until I am not. I am kind until I am not. That's where I fall short. When I see people propagating THE STUPIDIST garbage as fundamental doctrine in which they're filtering all of the rest of scripture through, Like The demonic Serpent Seed Doctrine,  I become zealous against the idea that this falsehood is going to be taught to others. 

"But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. 10 Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, 11 knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned."- Titus 3

That word Factious, it means Heretic. Warn a Heretic once or twice and then cut them off. I've been chastised for cutting off heretics. Iv'e been told that my opinion on things such as adding entire books that many we can trace back to their middle ages origins AS false, should be ignored for the sake of inclusive and artificial peace.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths."- 2 tim 4

This warning isn't just about the prosperity doctrine.  This is also about those who wish to have the appearance of wisdom in order the garner acceptance and prestige among men by way of their special knowledge. Theres a man that I have spoken against that says that he interprets dreams and speaks for God and then asks for money. The Man has been demonstratively false, and he threatened to knock my teeth out for speaking up on his false prophesy. Yet, other believers embrace him and say that I am in need of correction. Think about this:

"that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness."- 2 Thes 2

If you're out there spending all your time watching 4 hour youtube videos about how the Illuminati is turning hair into bread in order to corrupt your DNA to create Giants as was the plan of fallen angels which are Aliens...  YOU ARENT BEING GROUNDED IN THE TRUTH OF THE WORD OF GOD. It's turning aside to myths!!! The word says to focus on God and it says not to call everything an conspiracy that the world calls a conspiracy.

 "You are not to say, ‘It is a conspiracy!’
In regard to all that this people call a conspiracy,
And you are not to fear what they fear or be in dread of it." Isaiah 8

"I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate themselves."- Gal 5

Was Paul unloving in saying this? Did Paul have a bad spirit?  Was Paul unable to accept correction because he butted up against false teaching and didn't succumb to them? No, I don't believe so.
 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

"34 “Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, 35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar." - Matt 23

What about the Savior? How unloving that he called men broods of vipers right? No? Did they accuse Him of having an unclean spirit?  Yeah, They did in Luke 11.  HE wasn't evil or troubled with a spirit or in need of correction when He said :

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28 So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness." - Matt 23

The calling evil good and good evil is nothing new. It comes from all sorts of places.

"As they were speaking to the people, the priests and the captain of the temple guard and the Sadducees came up to them, 2 being greatly disturbed because they were teaching the people and proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection from the dead. 3 And they laid hands on them and put them in jail until the next day, for it was already evening. "- Acts 4

I recently was speaking against abortion, and I had an unwed teen mom tell me that I am not to have a voice against abortion. That I should just be silent on the matter and accept things and people the way that they are.

The taking of the most innocent life is something that cuts to the core of my justice issues 

All of this is to say this, Not everyone that agrees is your friend. Not everyone that disagrees or even sharply disagrees is evil or wrong. Just because someone isn't heading a correction, doesn't automatically mean that the one attempting to correct is in the right.

Trusty

This month I have been thinking about Trust. Does it differentiate from Faith?
There are so many elements to every day relationships and they all are foundationalised by trust. Every marriage is trust that your partner is going to abide by the Covenant that you've made with them, that they'll be faithful. Every relationship we pour into, aren't we saying making a statement of faith that you trust that they're worthy of investing in?
Trust is defined as :

firm belief in the reliability, truth, ability, or strength of someone or something

Maybe that differs from faith in that you can have a belief in the future reliability of someone that isn't currently trustworthy, that your faith is that someday they will become trustworthy.
Over the past year or so I have been thinking about how many people I have given my trust to, who did not deserve it or treated it as inconsequential . I've thought a lot about what loyalty means, and having people in your life that do not break your trust.

You cannot trust the sycophants because they'll tell you only what they think you want to hear and they lack character, those lacking character are not loyal, those not loyal cannot be trustworthy.

You cannot trust a liars because they're only about putting themselves above the truth, avoiding accountability

A friend of mine who is something of a casual believer is dating a man who is an atheist. My friend reached out to me and asked if we could meet up, just the three of us, to discuss some of the mans objections to faith. I am all for this, because in good faith, I am equipped to answer reasonable common objections to faith in effort to gain a lost brother as we all should be.  When we met up I listened to a few of the surface questions that were really in line with a misplaced focus rather than objections in of themselves, until we got to one specific point: Travesties done by people that claimed to be believers.  I kept underscoring over and over and over again about how even though there have been men and women who have claimed to represent the Truth of the Bible who have conducted immeasurable evils, this does not negate the FACT that the Bible is True regardless. If I tell people that I am a toaster and start huffing on a piece of bread, and then someone starts reading an actual toaster manual they would see that I am not a toaster and that the manual is correct and useful for a real toaster. The thing that stood out to me most was the idea that those proclaiming to be believers have broken the trust of someone who may have been looking for genuine faith (maybe).

I think about how Trust is at the core of God. Truth. What is real.

I think about this passage:

While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him.  Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?”  Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers.  For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”  - Matt 12

Christ pointing to Trust, Loyalty, Faithfulness, Dependability.

 I think about those that I have given my trust to, who have taken me for granted. I think of those who I have extended courtesy and allowed them to trade on my name only to have them shrug all my efforts off, all my sacrifice to nothing, all my expense as worthlessness. I can only imagine how God feels when we do that to His trust.

A plan in the heart of a man is like deep water, But a man of understanding draws it out. Many a man proclaims his own loyalty, But who can find a trustworthy man?     -Proverbs 20

Righteous Dude

The adversary is clever. He takes something true and twists it. When ever I am discussing the applicability of the Law of God with other believers, one thing that almost always comes up is the idea of "My works being my righteousness" and "seeking to establish my own righteousness".  One of the verses that might even get thrown my way when I am talking about being obedient to the Law of God is this one:

For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God..- Romans 10

That right there is the adversarial twist... that somehow by doing exactly what the Messiah said and told us to do, is establishing our own Righteousness. What this does is dismisses the fact that God Himself is the one that sets the standard of what IS righteous. When we read in Deuteronomy 6:

So the Lord commanded us to observe all these statutes, to fear the Lord our God for our good always and for our survival, as it is today. 25 It will be righteousness for us if we are careful to observe all this commandment before the Lord our God, just as He commanded us.

According to this verse, When we are obedient to HIS commands, we are walking in HIS Righteousness, as it is also written that the submitting to the commands of God is hostility to the flesh:

For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.- Romans 8

If by faith in Christ, you are doing the deeds of Christ, you're walking in HIS righteousness, as a response to your salvation.  IF you are following the Law for any other reason, you're seeking to establish your own righteousness and you've lost the plot. Look at this:

What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. - James 2 

What this is saying over and over again is that your faith should result in doing the commands of God, which by your faith shall be credited to you as righteousness. If you're of the mindset that "God saved me, now I just get to sit here and do nothing" I'd point you to the parable of the  talents.

Semantic Agent Man

Lets talk a moment about both agency and semantics. A lot of people get hung up on semantics in their reasoning and they incorporate these things into faulty doctrines. This is one reason that we have flat earth. One of the things that I hear from people that don't understand is on the topic of the returning to the land and the restoration of the House of Israel. there are some that see the working of God being done and attribute it rightly to Him. Others see that God uses men to achieve His purpose. Look at these too verses:

So the Lord was very angry with Israel and removed them from his presence. Only the tribe of Judah was left - 2 kings 17

And the king of Assyria did carry away Israel unto Assyria and put them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes: because they obeyed not the voice of the LORD their God, but transgressed his covenant, and all that Moses the servant of the LORD commanded and would not hear them, nor do them.- 2 kings 18

In a semantic argument one would say that these two verses are in contradiction as one says that God removed them, and the other says that the King of Assyria removed them. Unless you account that God used the King of Assyria to take Israel into captivity.


Lets look at this passage about God bringing forth Israel:

“Before she travailed, she brought forth;
Before her pain came, she gave birth to a boy.
8 “Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things?
Can a land be born in one day?
Can a nation be brought forth all at once?
As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her sons.
9 “Shall I bring to the point of birth and not give delivery?” says the Lord.
“Or shall I who gives delivery shut the womb?” says your God

This is speaking about God bringing forward Jerusalem which is a miracle in of itself, he did it. However, he did it using agency. God used Great Brittan and The United States as instruments to his work. The credit goes squarely to God, but he used people to make things happen.

Lets look at another example:

 ^"Now when Pharaoh had let the people go, God did not lead them by the way of the land of the Philistines, even though it was near; for God said, “The people might change their minds when they see war, and return to Egypt.” - Exo 13

God let Israel go or did Pharaoh? God did. We see this in Exo 9
And the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not listen to them, just as the Lord had spoken to Moses. Semantics and bad logic would look at the verse in chapter 13 as being contrary to Exo 9, but we see God works through people to achieve His will.

There are some that look at the retaking of the land and greater exodus as something that God does, and don't get me wrong it is an act of God, but the dismiss the peoples part in it and I think that is foolishness.


In History, the 12 tribes went into captivity because of their sins, but God said only Judah would remain because of God being God and good with His promises.  We read in 1 Kings about the sins of Jereboam and all that. When we read Revelation and Ezekiel we see a restoration of the Tribes of Israel. not just one tribe "Jews" or "Judah" but the restoration of the Tribes.


Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; behold, they say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope has perished. We are completely cut off.’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you will know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves and caused you to come up out of your graves, My people. 14 I will put My Spirit within you and you will come to life, and I will place you on your own land. Then you will know that I, the Lord, have spoken and done it,” declares the Lord.’”
“And you, son of man, take for yourself one stick and write on it, ‘For Judah and for the sons of Israel, his companions’; then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and all the house of Israel, his companions.’ 17 Then join them for yourself one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand. 18 When the sons of your people speak to you saying, ‘Will you not declare to us what you mean by these?’ 19 say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will put them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.”’ 20 The sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes. 21 Say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I will take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king will be king for all of them; and they will no longer be two nations and no longer be divided into two kingdoms. 23 They will no longer defile themselves with their idols, or with their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. And they will be My people, and I will be their God.- Ezekiel 37

So, what we see and have seen through history is God doing Amazing and Mighty things, to whom gets all the credit to Himself, but he uses people to get things done. Agency.  It is not unreasonable to believe that men have obedience in returning to the land in the same way in which they were lead out of Egypt. It may not mean that Yeshua physically returns and ushers us in, but then again He might.

Weak

This post may be more opinion than sound Biblical positioning, but I feel like they have a fair amount of overlap.

The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne -Rev 3

The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.

-Rev 3

Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you. - Luke 10

That is some pretty tough imagery here.  Conquerors , serpent and scorpion treaders... those who have power over the enemy. So... why do we have such weak and fearful people in the church lately? Why are men so effeminate and muted lately? Why is it that disagreements are taken as violence? Why is it that a contrary word leaves people rushing to their safety zones where they sit in a circle and talk about their feelings hoping for "safety"?  How are people going to hold to the faith, gun to their head, martyr style when they can't even hear someone tell them that something that they think in the scriptures is incorrect?

"But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God."- Matt 22

...And the Sadducees said "Wow, you're really rude and not being godly in how you say that. I really feel like you should have said that a different non-offensive way." as they retreated to their safe spaces free from truth and challenging viewpoints or correction....right? WRONG!!!

What really happened?

 

When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at His teaching.
But when the Pharisees heard that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered themselves together

They shut up.  They didn't melt down.... they were astonished. What if we stopped being such babies about hearing things that we didn't agree with, that we were teachable about things that matter. What is up with the weinery faith? Where did the men go?

“Now gird up your loins like a man,
And I will ask you, and you instruct Me!- Job 38:3

GOD LITERALLY TOLD JOB TO SACK UP!!! Why are men so muted? Why are we silent on things of great important and making such a big fuss over things that don't?  I know this months post is light on substance but its all I've had on my heart and mind for days. I'm tired of being trimmed to fit into a perception of what our culture that murders babies, hyper sexualizes everything, tries to tell me what a man should be. I'm not buying your damn razors. Rape culture is a myth because, NOBODY SUPPORTS RAPE (except for like, rapists.. I imagine they're pro-rape)

I'm tired of squishiness of people, of character not being character. Where has honor gone? Where has resilience fled? Who stole endurance? Why has cowardice overtaken us?
why are we so tolerant of false prophets selling dream interpretations? Why are we stomaching people who propose to a still married woman?  Why do we just plaster on a happy face as we all walk further and further away from what is right in the name of friendship and puppies and rainbows?

No! Where are the line in the sand, First to stand for the Lord types?

I'm flawed, very flawed, but I aspire to be clear about sin. I aspire to be a man. I aspire to be a righteous man of God. I don't see anywhere in scripture where it went well with a people turning a blind eye to sin just because they like the friend who commits it

The Hebrew Heart

I don't remember why exactly, but I think it was dealing with the thought of another year as a single messianic person that prompted me to look for and join and Messianic singles group on facebook. It's hard being a single person of faith, looking for compatibility in someone that says that they believe the same things that you do, but how much of that do they actually walk out? I mean, for me in the Christian church I have a hard enough time just making friends with other believers when I tell them why I believe what I believe from the SAME BOOK WE BOTH HOLD TO. I joined a facebook group looking mostly for other people that know the struggle of being Messianic and scattered around and the problems that we face. What I found for a while there were friends.

I thought that I had a good repertoire with other members, so far that I and a few other people were very active. We would laugh and play off of each others jokes and there are some relationships that I hold now as being like family to me. I helped several people find people that they married from that group. I respected one of the admins that would instigate challenges to people that were weirdos in order to "weed 'em out" as we called it. She's challenge them knowing that they'd react in a certain way, get huffed up and leave. I should in hindsight have seen that coming. It wasn't until I was in the group for some time that I learned that the founding member was a self professed dream interpreter running a "ministry" where he was asking people for money to tell them "what God was saying" in their dreams. I sat on that a little while because I didn't know if he was telling the truth or not. He wasn't. After a few of his "interpretations"  I told him outright that what he was telling me on my dreams weren't correct. I was just one witness though, what could I do with that. I was at a point where I was coming out of a structure where I had experienced severe narcissism and spiritual abuse from my former church environment and  I was working on healing up from that. I turned to a lot of these people for strength and support, after all they called themselves a ministry at the time.

I'm writing this out for a reason, I'm holding hurt and bitterness in my heart against them. I see them as scam artists and I see people that defend their behavior. Don't get me wrong, I don't deny that when someone posted something in one of the groups that was unbiblical, I'd come barking at it like a junkyard dog... people did not like the site of that, made them really uncomfortable. I don't deny that I have my own set of shortcomings. One thing I always try to do in contrast however, is I try to always take responsibility for my stuff. Some of these folks were well intentioned but mislead, but others seemed more predatory in the sense that they wanted to figure out a way to get money out of the people. You wouldn't stay in a church where a pastor got up and started telling you the message that he got from consulting a medium. You'd rebuke him and leave. Yet here was this group with a false prophet for a founder and woman that would tell me that my unbelieving sister that rejected the Messiah and ignored torah and that was hostile to God her whole life... was saved because she was just deceived by some spirits. I've got mixed emotions here because they were my friends in a hard time, but they were trying to feed me stuff that was staunchly unbiblical. I rejected it.


The group eventually made me an admin knowing that I'm a fighter and a warrior and everything that I have always been. In fact, when there was a dispute between this group and one of their old mens group cohorts, They advised me to make my own mens group and that group would take the place of the other one. They know I'm a Benjamite warrior, because they endorsed it when it was advantageous to their cause. They made me an admin and the group rules expressly stated that if ANYONE has and ISSUE WITH SOMEONE ELSE they were to FIRST go to THAT PERSON. They claimed that a bunch of people left the group, and that they went to them and found that they all said they left the group because of me. NONE of those people had come to me in accordance with group rules. Yet, here was was in a time where I was emotional and dealing with family stuff, getting kicked out of this group that had felt like a family to me , who went looking for people that would not confront me to my face and they listened to their gossips. Thats what it is when someone is too much of a coward to say something to your face. Its cowardice. The only thing that I hate more than cowardice is lies. They lied too. They decided that since I had disagreed with the main "leadership" woman about radically feminizing the group and barring certain people from 18-21 from the group then I was too warrior like and I had to be removed as admin. In the huff false prophet guy suggested that I make my own group, not realizing that I probably would, even though it took a little convincing from a friend of mine. Thats when they started saying that they kicked me out of the group for rebellion and telling people that I was creating division. I hadn't at that point, but as my bitterness grew for people that I had cared so much about that stabbed me in the heart in a really low point in my life... I started messing with them. I'm not going to lie, as the new group increased in numbers we did some pranks like posting the link to the new group in their old group, and that was funny... but it wasn't right. I take responsability for that. It wasn't like I hated them either, because when coward lady from the old group was allegedly living with a guy she was about to rush into marriage with and then called it off like, the day before the wedding... I reached out to her. not in some smarmy way, not in some ha ha at your misfortion way, not to kick her while she was down but to throw what little spark of light and hope I could in her dark time. Thats where we differed. In my dark time she kicked me, in her dark time I tried to offer some hope. She went after me in secret, and every time I went after her it was public. When her mom died I reach out to her again to offer my sympathies. I cared about that cowardly lady. I wish she wasn't a coward. The entire time she was hurting me I kept thinking that I know she's stronger than the cowardly stuff she was doing that was hurting me. I don't know. Maybe I'm like one of those people that'll get stabbed and think that the person isn't really going to stab me while they keep stabbing me... what are they called? Idiots?

I need to forgive them for the betrayal. It came up recently that one of the people I know is such great friends with them and ignores all of that stuff about them. IT made me extra suspicious. especially when things in that persons story weren't' adding up. Telling me things that I know aren't the case. Saying that she really likes things that are dark and twisty and then cowering when direct questions are asked about why her story is contradictory? I shouldn't have junkyarded, but it smelled like them. It smelled like their finger prints, and it smelled like my blood. I didn't even mention the little neckbeared hitjob they sent after me once the group split. Little Irish false prophet guy who's dad is on the run who kept prophesying that his dad was going to turn himself in by the end of the weekend, who's dad did not turn himself in by the end of the weekend... spoke presumptuously in the name of God.  I didn't menitoned the other guy that I haven't done anything to who still wont tell me why he has a problem with me, because he cant...because if he does it will prove that h'es been listen' to the back room trash talk from neckbeard.  They're all those "everything is a demon" types. Like the Messianic benny hinns without the style. Maybe that was harsh I don't know.

I've got to find a balance though. There are too many wolves in sheeps clothing looking to devour people. I know its ironic me saying that because Benjamin is a ravenous wolf. I devour those that I go to war against. I don't want to war against my brothers and sisters, IF that is what these people are... though I am inclined to think not on mot of them.  I know I'm flawed deep. I can be an asshole in how I do the right things the wrong ways. I look like the bad guy protecting people from dangers they don't even see. Smooth words and casual tongues don't look all that threatening but aren't they how the devils work is done?  I know what it feels like to be manipulated. I've learned how to avoid a lot of it over the years. not all are so trained.  Hebrew hearts are full of wickedness, who can understand them?  I know I'm not the good guy but I'm not so sure I'm the bad one either.

Flat tops- Dissecting Flat Earth Meme (Row C)

 

Row B in case you missed it 


SUN MOVES NOT THE EARTH: ( Here we go..)
Genesis 15:12, 15:17,19:23, 32:31, Exodus 17:12, 22:3, 22:26, Leviticus 22:7, Numbers 2:3, 21:11, 34:15, Deuteronomy 4:41, 4:47, 11:30, 16:6, 23:11, 24:13, 24:15,  Joshua 1:15, 8:29, 10:27, 12:1, 13:5, 19:12, 19:27, 19:34, Judges 8:13, 9:33, 14:18, 19:14,20:43, 2 Samuel 3:35, 23:4, 1 Kings 22:36, 2 Chronicles 18:34, Psalm 50:1, 113:3, Ecclesiastes 1:5, Isaiah 41:25, 45:6, 59:19, Jeremiah 15:9 , Daniel 6:14, Amos 8:9, Jonah 4:8, Michael 3:6, Nahum 3:17, Malachi 1:11, Matthew 5:45, Mark 16:2, Ephesians 4:26,James 1:11

Genesis 15:12, "Now when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and behold, terror and great darkness fell upon him. "

Do you guys know that your flat earth model has a sun going in a circle hovering with the moon and that this verse does NOT help your case because it contradicts your model? This says that the sun went down.... not hovered in a circle over a flat earth 

15:17,"It came about when the sun had set, that it was very dark, and behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a flaming torch which passed between these pieces.
"Where does the sun "set" in the model of it hovering in circles over a flat earth? I mean look at this

According to you guys, the sun never goes "down"... Just like...left.

• 19:23, "The sun had risen over the earth when Lot came to Zoar. "
  Risen eh.... not in that model.
•  32:31"Now the sun rose upon him just as he crossed over Penuel, and he was limping on his thigh. " How? If the light shown down from that angle, it wouldn't be rising up.
• Exodus 17:12, "But Moses’ hands were heavy. Then they took a stone and put it under him, and he sat on it; and Aaron and Hur supported his hands, one on one side and one on the other. Thus his hands were steady until the sun set. "
  If you guys were to take this passage the way you do other passages, it would mean that the sun only rises and sets when people move their arms.. and I think we all know, that only works for winning in football or the world series.  Still, in the flat earth hoverball model... there is no setting.
•  22:3,"But if the sun has risen on him, there will be bloodguiltiness on his account. He shall surely make restitution; if he owns nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft. "
  Sunrise and sun set...
•  22:26 "If you ever take your neighbor’s cloak as a pledge, you are to return it to him before the sun sets"
  You know, there is a group that talks about the rising sun and setting sun...the ones that believe in a Globe earth. Does all this fit in the Globe earth belief? Yes it does... because it looks like the sun rises from the horizon and then sets after moving across the sky... imagine that. This DOESNT actually say anything on the shape of the earth. All of these verses are disqualified and used to just pad the bill.

 Leviticus 22:7 " But when the sun sets, he will be clean, and afterward he shall eat of the holy gifts, for it is his food. " Interesting thing to follow up on because Yeshua mentions David and his men eating of this food... but that, much like this... has nothing to do with the shape of the earth.

• Lets see if these have anything to do with the shape of the earth or if its more sun rise sunset stuff.... Numbers 2:3, "Now those who camp on the east side toward the sunrise shall be of the standard of the camp of Judah, by their armies, and the leader of the sons of Judah: Nahshon the son of Amminadab," Nope
• 21:11,  ^"They journeyed from Oboth and camped at Iye-abarim, in the wilderness which is opposite Moab, to the east." I had to look this one up because this has nothing to do with anything... period... I got the scripture right... this is clearly another example of padding the bill.  
• 34:15," The two and a half tribes have received their possession across the Jordan opposite Jericho, eastward toward the sunrising.” ...nope, back to sunrise and sunset. You know I just should link that daytime night time bird... its about as relevant 

• Deuteronomy 4:41, "Then Moses set apart three cities across the Jordan to the east" Sorry folks, there are cities in the east... the earth is flat. Pack it in. we're done.
•  4:47, " They took possession of his land and the land of Og king of Bashan, the two kings of the Amorites, who were across the Jordan to the east" This would be like me saying, New York exists, the world is shaped like funnel cake.
•  11:30, "Are they not across the Jordan, west of the way toward the sunset, in the land of the Canaanites who live in the Arabah, opposite Gilgal, beside the oaks of Moreh? " At least we're back to at least mentioning the sun which is almost pertinent but still not in relation to the shape of the earth
•  16:6, " but at the place where the Lord your God chooses to establish His name, you shall sacrifice the Passover in the evening at sunset, at the time that you came out of Egypt. " In the flat earth model shouldn't this read  'you shall sacrifice the Passover in the evening at sunpause'
•  23:11,"But it shall be when evening approaches, he shall bathe himself with water, and at sundown he may reenter the camp." Bath-time means the earth is flat?
•  24:13, "When the sun goes down you shall surely return the pledge to him, that he may sleep in his cloak and bless you; and it will be righteousness for you before the Lord your God." Sleeping naked means the earth is flat?
•  24:15 " You shall give him his wages on his day before the sun sets, for he is poor and sets his heart on it; so that he will not cry against you to the Lord and it become sin in you." Paychecks mean that the earth is flat?

•  you ready for another set that mentions sunrise and sunset and has nothing to do with the shape of the earth? I know I am.... Joshua 1:15, "until the Lord gives your brothers rest, as He gives you, and they also possess the land which the Lord your God is giving them. Then you shall return to your own land, and possess that which Moses the servant of the Lord gave you beyond the Jordan toward the sunrise.” Man there is a whole bit that cross references with Hebrews 4 about resting and keeping the Sabbath and taking the land.... but what isn't here... is anything about the shape of the earth.
•  8:29," He hanged the king of Ai on a tree until evening; and at sunset Joshua gave command and they took his body down from the tree and threw it at the entrance of the city gate, and raised over it a great heap of stones that stands to this day." Had a hanging, Earths flat now?
•  10:27, " It came about at sunset that Joshua gave a command, and they took them down from the trees and threw them into the cave where they had hidden themselves, and put large stones over the mouth of the cave, to this very day." Boarded up the ol mine, that means the earths flat?
•  12:1, " Now these are the kings of the land whom the sons of Israel defeated, and whose land they possessed beyond the Jordan toward the sunrise, from the valley of the Arnon as far as Mount Hermon, and all the Arabah to the east: " ...did..... did Israel pound down the kings SO hard that they.... they flattened the entire earth???? Because if no, this has nothing to do with the shape of the earth.
•  13:5, "and the land of the Gebalite, and all of Lebanon, toward the east, from Baal-gad below Mount Hermon as far as Lebo-hamath."  Lebo-hamath is a cool sounding name but its not a shape of the earth... probably... I'mma make sure ...it is not
•  19:12, "Then it turned from Sarid to the east toward the sunrise as far as the border of Chisloth-tabor, and it proceeded to Daberath and up to Japhia. " Daberath sounds like a Christian metal band... but not a shape of the earth.
•  19:27, "It turned toward the east to Beth-dagon and reached to Zebulun, and to the valley of Iphtahel northward to Beth-emek and Neiel; then it proceeded on north to Cabul" We got an old Bible mapquest thing going on here, but not a shape of the earth.
•  19:34 "Then the border turned westward to Aznoth-tabor and proceeded from there to Hukkok; and it reached to Zebulun on the south and touched Asher on the west, and to Judah at the Jordan toward the east" It touched Asher on the west, Asher is now IT. *everyone runs from Asher*  Still no shape.

• Lets get.... Judgey... Judges 8:13, "Then Gideon the son of Joash returned from the battle by the ascent of Heres. " What the what..... what? What does....what?  What the.... ... What does this have to do with anything? ...what?
•  9:33, "In the morning, as soon as the sun is up, you shall rise early and rush upon the city; and behold, when he and the people who are with him come out against you, you shall do to them whatever you can.”" We've got morning people, that means the earth is flat?
•  14:18, "So the men of the city said to him on the seventh day before the sun went down,
  “What is sweeter than honey?
  And what is stronger than a lion?”
  And he said to them,
  “If you had not plowed with my heifer,
  You would not have found out my riddle.”  Do. NOT. Plow. With. Another. Mans. Heifer. Advice for life people. Don't do it. Also this has nothing to do with the shape of the earth.
•  19:14, "So they passed along and went their way, and the sun set on them near Gibeah which belongs to Benjamin. " So... that means that the sun fell out of the sky, on each of them right? like a giant fiery squish.... no? are we...we not doing that literal thing here?
• 20:43 "They surrounded Benjamin, pursued them without rest and trod them down opposite Gibeah toward the east. " Benji starts a civil war, must mean the earth is flat?
• 2 Samuel 3:35, "Then all the people came to persuade David to eat bread while it was still day; but David vowed, saying, “May God do so to me, and more also, if I taste bread or anything else before the sun goes down.” So David vowed not to eat bread, and thus the earth was flat, and flatbread became a thing?
•  23:4, Is as the light of the morning when the sun rises,
  A morning without clouds,
  When the tender grass springs out of the earth,
  Through sunshine after rain.’  Sun RISES, not Sun MAKES A LEFT AND COMES NEAR WITH LIMITED LIGHT SCOPE
• 1 Kings 22:36, "Then a cry passed throughout the army close to sunset, saying, “Every man to his city and every man to his country.” I read this and in my head I heard that song "I'm every woman, its all in me" and I dunno what that was about, but it isn't a shape of the earth I can tell you that much
•  2 Chronicles 18:34, "The battle raged that day, and the king of Israel propped himself up in his chariot in front of the Arameans until the evening; and at sunset he died." Chariot races are not an earth shape.
•  Psalm 50:1, "The Mighty One, God, the Lord, has spoken,
  And summoned the earth from the rising of the sun to its setting " Which place on the circuit is the rise and which is the set?
•  113:3,"From the rising of the sun to its setting
  The name of the Lord is to be praised." .... because honestly, the circuit thing above is what the global people believe, except the circle is around the whole globe.
•  Ecclesiastes 1:5, "Also, the sun rises and the sun sets;
  And hastening to its place it rises there again." I see that the sun travels on a circuit through the galaxy...  look at this accurate video that also has cool background music. The sun travels in a circuit.
•  Isaiah 41:25, "“I have aroused one from the north, and he has come;
  From the rising of the sun he will call on My name;
  And he will come upon rulers as upon mortar,
  Even as the potter treads clay.”" Potters tread clay, earths flat?
•  45:6, "That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun
  That there is no one besides Me.
  I am the Lord, and there is no other " no one is next to the Lord, earth flat?
• 59:19, "So they will fear the name of the Lord from the west
  And His glory from the rising of the sun, For He will come like a rushing stream
  Which the wind of the Lord drives."  Lord drives wind and streams... flat earth? How does that jump in logic keep happening?

• Jeremiah 15:9 , "“She who bore seven sons pines away;Her breathing is labored.
  Her sun has set while it was yet day; She has been shamed and humiliated.
  So I will give over their survivors to the sword Before their enemies,” declares the Lord. Pretty intense. Not a shape though.
  
•  Daniel 6:14, "Then, as soon as the king heard this statement, he was deeply distressed and set his mind on delivering Daniel; and even until sunset he kept exerting himself to rescue him. " Distressed kings are not an earth shape
•  Amos 8:9,  "“It will come about in that day,” declares the Lord God,
  “That I will make the sun go down at noon And make the earth dark in broad daylight." Ok, A miracle isn't the same thing as an earth shape. God bringing Yeshua from the grave isn't a commentary on layers of heaven and earth.
   
• Jonah 4:8, " When the sun came up God appointed a scorching east wind, and the sun beat down on Jonah’s head so that he became faint and begged with all his soul to die, saying, “Death is better to me than life.”"  Uh oh... we have another literalist verse... the sun punched Jonah in the face... Its that angry sun from Mario 3 with the arms and the frowns.... 
• Micha 3:6,"Therefore it will be night for you—without vision, And darkness for you—without divination. The sun will go down on the prophets, And the day will become dark over them" seems symbolic, but doesn't seem like an earth shape
•  Nahum 3:17," Your guardsmen are like the swarming locust. Your marshals are like hordes of grasshoppers Settling in the stone walls on a cold day. The sun rises and they flee,
  And the place where they are is not known."  Cool analogy, no shape.
•  Malachi 1:11, "For from the rising of the sun even to its setting, My name will be great among the nations, and in every place incense is going to be offered to My name, and a grain offering that is pure; for My name will be great among the nations,” says the Lord of hosts" * read this in my best Paul Willbur impersonation voice* "Thiiiiiiis is not a shaaaape, from the rising of the sun, to the end of every dayyyyy, THIIIIIIISSSS is NOT a SHAAAAAAAPE"
•  Matthew 5:45, "so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous" *inhales* THIIIIIIIS IS NOT AAAAA SHAAAAAPE
• Mark 16:2,"Very early on the first day of the week, they *came to the tomb when the sun had risen. " a field trip to the cemetery does not mean the earth is flat.
•  Ephesians 4:26, ^"Be angry, and yet do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger,"  We got a mad face, the earths flat?
   
• James 1:11"For the sun rises with a scorching wind and withers the grass; and its flower falls off and the beauty of its appearance is destroyed; so too the rich man in the midst of his pursuits will fade away" None of those were shapes.  I feel like running game tape like a football coach except every play is a rerun of sesame street.
  
  
  Now that we have all of that, the heading is that the earth doesn't move.... but...
  "The earth reels to and fro like a drunkard And it totters like a shack, For its transgression is heavy upon it,And it will fall, never to rise again." Isaiah 24 tottering is movement. The earth totters like a shack. Reeling is movement like a drunkard... the earth moves like I do after too much whiskey trying to find the bathroom.
  
  Isaiah 38:8 doesn't work with your dome light flat top sun moon halo thingy
  "Behold, I will cause the shadow on the stairway, which has gone down with the sun on the stairway of Ahaz, to go back ten steps.” So the sun’s shadow went back ten steps on the stairway on which it had gone down."  

SUN STOPS MOVING (is sun stops moving an earth shape?)
Isaiah 60:20, Job 9:7, Joshua 10:12-14, Habakuk 3:11

• Isaiah 60:20,  AW C'MON.... for real... "Your sun will no longer set,
  Nor will your moon wane; For you will have the Lord for an everlasting light,
  And the days of your mourning will be over."  You're over here trying to use a verse about essentially HEAVEN to say that the sun stops moving, at a time, when there is NO SUN OR MOON and none of that is a friggin shape of the friggin earth.
• Job 9:7, "Who commands the sun not to shine, And sets a seal upon the stars"  I bet its the same one that commanded the Earth to be ROUND
• Joshua 10:12-14, "Then Joshua spoke to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the sons of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel,“O sun, stand still at Gibeon, And O moon in the valley of Aijalon.”
  ¹³ So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped,
  Until the nation avenged themselves of their enemies.Is it not written in the book of Jashar? And the sun stopped in the middle of the sky and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day. ¹⁴ There was no day like that before it or after it, when the Lord listened to the voice of a man; for the Lord fought for Israel."

Shouldn't that mean that the sun didn't circle left? Also, if there was no day like it before or after it... doesn't that mean that this is not a working model for your case? There was never a day like it before or after... meaning that the sun doesn't in fact stop the way you say it stops?

• Habakuk 3:11"Sun and moon stood in their places; They went away at the light of Your arrows, At the radiance of Your gleaming spear." *now sing it in the song style of the lion king* THAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATSA NOTTTTTTTTAAAAA SHAPEOFDAEARTH *hummmm *

MOON HAS ITS OWN LIGHT

Genesis 1:16, Isaiah13:10, 30:26, 60:19-20, Jeremiah 31:35,  Matthew 24:29, Mark 13:24, Ezekiel 32:7, Revelation 21:23

• Genesis 1:16, "God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also"  The moon has a light, given to it by the sun that it reflects, and that isn't an earth shape. none of this section has any bearing on the shape of the earth
•  Isaiah13:10, "For the stars of heaven and their constellations
  Will not flash forth their light; The sun will be dark when it rises 
  And the moon will not shed its light."   Interesting that when the sun goes dark.... the moon does too... its almost like the moon was reflecting light from somewhere...
•  30:26, "The light of the moon will be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun will be seven times brighter, like the light of seven days, on the day the Lord binds up the fracture of His people and heals the bruise He has inflicted." today I learned that currently the moon reflects 1/7th of the light of the sun. This math is probably wrong because I suck at math, but, the moon will go to the sun level and the sun will go to super level.
• 60:19-20, "No longer will you have the sun for light by day, Nor for brightness will the moon give you light; But you will have the Lord for an everlasting light,
  And your God for your glory.²⁰ “Your sun will no longer set,Nor will your moon wane;
  For you will have the Lord for an everlasting light,And the days of your mourning will be over." Moon not having light still seems DIRECTLY related to the amount of Light by the Sun...
  
•  Jeremiah 31:35,  Thus says the Lord, Who gives the sun for light by day
  And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar; The Lord of hosts is His name:"  I'm running out of songs to say this is not a shape of the earth to...
• Matthew 24:29, "“But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. " Sun lights out...moon lights out... simple. Not an earth shape.
  
•  Mark 13:24, "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light"  Sun dark, moon dark
•  Ezekiel 32:7,“And when I extinguish you,
  I will cover the heavens and darken their stars;
  I will cover the sun with a cloud
  And the moon will not give its light."  What about Celine Dion...  I think that might work, the Titanic song...
  
•  Revelation 21:23 "And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb.
  *inhales* THIIIIIIIIIIS ISSSSSS NOOT a SHAAAAAPE of the EARTHHHHHHHH, but I know in my heart that you can get this is not a shappppeeeeee.

HIGH ALTITUDE PERSPECTIVES

Daniel 4:11, 4:20, Matthew4:8

• Daniel 4:11, "‘The tree grew large and became strong
  And its height reached to the sky,
  And it was visible to the end of the whole earth."  THIS WAS A VISON!!! You know, that place where seeing an angel doesn't make you poop yourself, where you can take coals from the altar and clean your mouth without doing severe face melting damage!!!  Look, Daniel even breaks it down in verse 21...but it adds verse 20 as some kinda proof next so lets do that
• 4:20,"The tree that you saw, which became large and grew strong, whose height reached to the sky and was visible to all the earth" AND THE INTERPRETATION OF THE VISON...."and whose foliage was beautiful and its fruit abundant, and in which was food for all, under which the beasts of the field dwelt and in whose branches the birds of the sky lodged— ²² it is you, O king; for you have become great and grown strong, and your majesty has become great and reached to the sky and your dominion to the end of the earth" Get outta here with your garbage renderings and violence to the text.
•  Matthew 4:8 "Again, the devil *took Him to a very high mountain and *showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory; "   So, you're taking this face to face conversation with THE DEVIL to mean that there is a mountain in which you can get a line of sight on every kingdom....ever.... and not as the devil just showed Him some stuff

EVERYONE SEES JESUS ( that isn't a shape!!!)
Revelation 1:7 
"Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen."
NOT. A. SHAPE.
MATTHEWS BIBLE FROM 1537 SAYS FLAT EARTH
2 Samuel 11:11
Oh I see we're not only making up scriptures but we're going with obscure Bibles that aren't around probably because they're poorly translated too

NEW JERUSALEM THE HUGE CUBE (..? is that right...like the Borg?)

Revelation 21:15-17

• Revelation 21:15-17 " The one who spoke with me had a gold measuring rod to measure the city, and its gates and its wall. ¹⁶ The city is laid out as a square, and its length is as great as the width; and he measured the city with the rod, fifteen hundred miles; its length and width and height are equal. ¹⁷ And he measured its wall, seventy-two yards, according to human measurements, which are also angelic measurements. " I mean its cool that heaven says No to the metric system.... but a city laid out in a square isn't an earth shape any more than Madison square garden is the earth shape...

CREATION WORSHIPPERS: (are NOT A SHAPE)
Deuteronomy 4:19,17:3, 2 Kings 23:5, Jeremiah 8:2

• Deuteronomy 4:19,And beware not to lift up your eyes to heaven and see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, and be drawn away and worship them and serve them, those which the Lord your God has allotted to all the peoples under the whole heaven.
• 17:3,"and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded"
•  2 Kings 23:5, "He did away with the idolatrous priests whom the kings of Judah had appointed to burn incense in the high places in the cities of Judah and in the surrounding area of Jerusalem, also those who burned incense to Baal, to the sun and to the moon and to the constellations and to all the host of heaven. "
•  Jeremiah 8:2 " They will spread them out to the sun, the moon and to all the host of heaven, which they have loved and which they have served, and which they have gone after and which they have sought, and which they have worshiped. They will not be gathered or buried; they will be as dung on the face of the ground. "
  
  Well, none of those were earth shapes... and acknowledging that the earth is round isn't worshipping the moon and starts any more than camping in the woods is worshipping trees.

GODS WORD IS ALWAYS FAITHFUL AND TRUE
Jeremiah 42:5, Revelation 3:14, 19:11,21:5

• Jeremiah 42:5, "Then they said to Jeremiah, “May the Lord be a true and faithful witness against us if we do not act in accordance with the whole message with which the Lord your God will send you to us." Bro... I caught you making up a few scriptures on this list!!!
•  Revelation 3:14, "“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:" You made up verses on this list that don't exist
• "19:11, " And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war" yeah...so repent for making stuff up
• 21:5 "And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” And He *said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true.” " Yeshua hitting the freeverse there. Still not an earth shape.  200 verse debunked. *mic drop* 

Is the firmament a solid dome? I dunno... but...Link