Sons of God are Humans.

...and a pretty awesome name of a Hebrew Biker gang. 

This post will spend a little bit on Genesis 6 and the context of the sons of God relation to the Daughters of Men and the Nephilim, but it is primarily a study on who the sons of God are. After reading the Genesis 6 account and seeing that I believe the term "Sons of God" a reference to humans of obedience, I went and I listed every occurrence that I could find the term in scripture. I have found that every instance as listed below can and likely should, refer to humans. Especially due to the law of first mention.  This started in Genesis 6, where the previous chapter lists a specific class of the lineage of Adam and how God is marked as the foremost of the lineage of Adam. One way to say that would be that Adam, was a son of God. I see that the start of Genesis 5 parallels what we see in the lineage of Yeshua  the Messiah

This is the book of the generations of Adam. On the day when God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them “mankind” on the day when they were created. - Gen 5

 

  the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God- Luke 3:38

The scripture that is controversial is the passage of Gen 6 which states as follows:

That the sons of God saw that the daughters of mankind were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not remain with man forever, because he is also flesh; nevertheless his days shall be 120 years.” 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of mankind, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.- Gen 6

There are some that render sons of God in the text to mean angels, instead of what I believe would be more accurately appropriate as a classification of righteous decedents that were beginning to stray from the righteous walk.  I believe that we can see in Genesis 4 the fallen men starting with Cain, and his sons. Genesis 5 being a classification of sons that were walking upright. Genesis 6 shows that those walking upright began to marry those that were from the camp of fallen men on the basis of their beauty.  We know that there was a sacrifice or offering in place from Genesis 4 where God warned Cain of his anger and that his face was Fallen 

So I'm looking at a thing in Genesis right, and I note that the primitive root for Nephilim:
From נָפַל (H5307) Variant spellings for this word: נפיל (Strongs and Gesenius) נפל (Strongs)

is 

H5307 - nāp̄al naw-fal' נָפַל nâphal, naw-fal'; a primitive root; to fall, in a great variety of applications (intransitive or causative, literal or figurative):—be accepted, cast (down, self, (lots), out), cease, die, divide (by lot), (let) fail, (cause to, let, make, ready to) fall (away, down, -en, -ing), fell(-ing), fugitive, have (inheritance), inferior, be judged (by mistake for 6419), lay (along), (cause to) lie down, light (down), be ( hast) lost, lying, overthrow, overwhelm, perish, present(-ed, -ing), (make to) rot, slay, smite out,  surely, throw down.

And this second one, is where God says
Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why is your face Naphal?

 Behold, You have driven me this day from the face of the ground; and I will be hidden from Your face, and I will be a wanderer and a drifter on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.” 15 So the Lord said to him, “Therefore whoever kills Cain, vengeance will be taken on him seven times as much.” And the Lord placed a mark on Cain, so that no one finding him would kill him.

16 Then Cain left the presence of the Lord, and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

The connection of Nephilim and God pointing to Cains face as fallen may seem coincidental at first, unless we factor in that Cain and his sons were men of violence, and the Nephilim caused violence. 
Cain had left the presence of the Lord.  From Adam you have sons of God and Cain who left the presence of the Lord.  If there is a tribe headed by the original murderer, who is renowned in history for being one that takes life, the text shows that his child(ren)  follow suit it stands to reason that violence is a defining feature for that group.  
When we see these sons of God( from righteous classification of men)- taking actual wives the daughters of men (pagan/ polygamist group) we can safely conclude that it resulted in violence, if it were a matter of angels entering into a covenant of marriage that would violate that Yeshua says it doesn't happen. We see Men, taking women, in a time where there were men of violence and murder, who were before and after the flood.  If the flood was to eradicate a race of angel half breed human experiments, then why would Noah be allowed to preach for them to join on the Ark? 

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, held for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly- 2 Peter 2 

What we find in Gen 6 is that God is grieved with Man, and then God limits the life of Man, and then God destroys the world because of the violence of Men. There is nothing in the text to suggest that angels fit better.  Furthermore if we look at that passage in 2 Peter chapter 2, it states that fallen angels were cast into hell, pits of darkness held for judgement, not cast to earth and allowed to willfully enter into covenant of marriage with women after developing the physical anatomy to be able to do so. 
A camp of men who kill and take what they want fits context better to explain why Abraham journeyed to what would be his distant cousins and told his wife to pretend that she's his sister for fear that he'd be murdered and they take her. 

moving on. 

 “You are sons of the Lord your God; you shall not cut yourselves nor shave a bald spot above your forehead for the dead. For you are a holy people to the Lord your God, and the Lord has chosen you to be a people for His personal possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.- Deut 14:1-2

I think this is pretty clear that its not referencing Angels. Some might argue that this is not using a very specific "B'nei Elohim"  but it is saying Ben Yehova Elohim which renders that argument even useless seeing as this is a greater context. 

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.- Job 1:6 

Again, there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the Lord.- Job 2:1

I have linked these two together because the same point stands for both of them. The word angel is not used here. There is no reason for us to insert it here. We see that that these sons of God came to present themselves before God, and Satan also came.  We read in 2 Peter 2 that the fallen angels were held in a pit in darkness awaiting judgement so why would they be called sons of God any way? Cain in his rebellion did not retain such a title. There is no reason to believe that this passage is referring to angels. So what is it referring to? I say its referring to obedient faithful humans. 

“Three times a year all your males shall appear before the LORD your God at the place which He chooses: at the Feast of Unleavened Bread, at the Feast of Weeks, and at the Feast of Booths; and they are not to appear before the LORD empty-handed. - Deut 16:16

The call of righteous men coming at an appointed time and the specific significance of Satan coming at the appointed time to afflict someone does not make humans become Angels. 

When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy?- Job 38:7

This is one that gets leaned on fairly heavily by those that support that Gen 6 is talking about angels being the sons of God. They state that sons of God means angels , because stars could mean angels, and this has the stars and sons side by side.  One of several problems with this is that angels isn't in the text, and that is making several leaps and assumptions in order to make a case that is logically inconsistent with the rest of the chapter and other passages. Lets break this down with two points. 1 this is from a chapter of imagery and great sarcasm on behalf of God to really drive His point home with Job and put Job in check.  If we are to take this passage as literal then here are other passages that we have to do the same thing with from the same passage:

We have to figure out when exactly it was that Job walked along the bottom of the ocean and was hanging out under the sea:

“Have you entered the springs of the sea,

And walked in the depth of the ocean?

We have to determine that there is a literal actual storehouse where God keeps all His snow and ice 

Have you entered the storehouses of the snow,

And have you seen the storehouses of the hail

 And this:

 “Where is the way to the dwelling of light?

And darkness, where is its place,

20 That you would take it to its territory,

And discern the paths to its home?

21 You know, for you were born then,

And the number of your days is great!

If we are to take this passage as literal, then we must deduce that God is actually mad at Job not for being self righteous and taking issue with the sovereignty of God as the rest of the book shows, but instead craft a doctrine where God is mad at this immortal Job who has lived forever and just forgotten how creation actually unfolded. This is not how we should study these things. This is a common mistake. I mentioned that there were 2 points, one was showing from the same chapter the errors of saying that stars and sons of God singing means angels. Lets look at the entirety of Psalms 148 as it pertains to rendering Job 38: 7 

Praise the Lord!

Praise the Lord from the heavens;

Praise Him in the heights!

2 Praise Him, all His angels;

Praise Him, all His heavenly armies!

3 Praise Him, sun and moon;

Praise Him, all stars of light!

4 Praise Him, highest heavens,

And the waters that are above the heavens!

5 They are to praise the name of the Lord,

For He commanded and they were created.

6 He has also established them forever and ever;

He has made a decree, and it will not pass away.

7 Praise the Lord from the earth,

Sea monsters, and all the ocean depths;

8 Fire and hail, snow and clouds;

Stormy wind, fulfilling His word;

9 Mountains and all hills;

Fruit trees and all cedars;

10 Animals and all cattle;

Crawling things and winged fowl;

11 Kings of the earth and all peoples;

Rulers and all judges of the earth;

12 Both young men and virgins;

Old men and children.

13 They are to praise the name of the Lord,

For His name alone is exalted;

His majesty is above earth and heaven.

14 And He has lifted up a horn for His people,

Praise for all His godly ones,

For the sons of Israel, a people near to Him.

Praise the Lord!

So to render Job 38:7 to mean angels even though it doesn't say angels- but other passages mention things that could be theorized as similar  things, if we were to go forward that way we must deduce that:

  Angels are :Sea monsters, ocean depths; Fire and hail, snow and clouds; Stormy wind, fulfilling His word; Mountains and all hills; Fruit trees and all cedars; armies; sun and moon; all stars of light; highest heavens, the waters that are above the heavens  Animals and all cattle; Crawling things and winged fowl; Kings of the earth and all peoples; Rulers and all judges of the earth;  Both young men and virgins; Old men and children.
....is there anything that angels aren't in this doctrine? Lets move on

“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God.- Matthew 5:9

Faithful righteous people who are seekers of peace and not seekers of war or perpetuators of conflict, will be called sons of God. 

 Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and the women are given in marriage, 35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 for they cannot even die anymore, for they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. 37 But as for the fact that the dead are raised, even Moses revealed this in the passage about the burning bush, where he calls the Lord the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. - Luke 20

1.  The sons of this age- humans
2. Will be worthy to attain that age/ be Resurrected from the dead
3. Will not being given into marriage  like the angels, contrast with gen 6 sons of God took wives from the daughters of men. 
4. This is all in a response to marriage that we will be sons of God 

For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons and daughters of God.- Romans 8:14

Those being led by the Spirit of God will be sons and daughters (both) of God. Angels are spirit. Angels haven't a gender. 

For the eagerly awaiting creation waits for the revealing of the sons and daughters of God.- Romans 8:19

The time of Salvation where God will say to His people well done good and faithful servant. 

 as He also says in Hosea: “I will call those who were not My people, ‘My people,’
And her who was not beloved, ‘beloved.’”26 “And it shall be that in the place where it was said to them, ‘you are not My people,’ There they shall be called sons of the living God.”27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, “Though the number of the sons of Israel may be like the sand of the sea, only the remnant will be saved; - Romans 9:25-27

Romans 9 is stating that the sons of God (and Daughters) are the Remnant. There has always been a remnant of God and that they are People, not angels 

For you are all sons and daughters of God through faith in Christ Jesus.- Galatians 3:26

Short, Simple Concise. 

Because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying out, “Abba! Father!” - Galatians 4:6

The conclusion is clear. Nowhere does Sons of God say angels and in several places over and over again sons of God (and Daughters of God) are humans. 

Stars and sons singing

Job 38

5Who set its measurements? Since you know. Or who stretched the measuring line over it?
6 On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone,
7 When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 “Or who enclosed the sea with doors When it went out from the womb, bursting forth;

Psalm 148 
 Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens;  Praise Him in the heights!
2 Praise Him, all His angels; Praise Him, all His heavenly armies!
3 Praise Him, sun and moon; Praise Him, all stars of light!
4 Praise Him, highest heavens, And the waters that are above the heavens!
5 They are to praise the name of the Lord, For He commanded and they were created.
6 He has also established them forever and ever; He has made a decree, and it will not pass away.
7 Praise the Lord from the earth, Sea monsters, and all the ocean depths;
8 Fire and hail, snow and clouds; Stormy wind, fulfilling His word;
9 Mountains and all hills; Fruit trees and all cedars;
10 Animals and all cattle; Crawling things and winged fowl;
11 Kings of the earth and all peoples; Rulers and all judges of the earth;
12 Both young men and virgins; Old men and children.
13They are to praise the name of the Lord, For His name alone is exalted;
His majesty is above earth and heaven. 
14 And He has lifted up a horn for His people, Praise for all His godly ones,

For the sons of Israel, a people near to Him.

Praise the Lord!

Nephilim and Gen 6

I know that I have done this topic before, but it came up again so I'm writing it again.

Gen 6
Now it came about, when mankind began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of mankind were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not remain with man forever, because he is also flesh; nevertheless his days shall be 120 years.” 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of mankind, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

This text spawns (heh) all kinds of theory. One things that people like to say is that the Nephilim are fallen angels that boned down some earth chicks and boom- giants. That is not how i see it and allow me to present why I don't see it that way. 

Ok, lets break this apart. 

• 1. Now it came about, when mankind began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them

Mankind began to multiply daughters- this is important context. 

• 2  that the sons of God saw that the daughters of mankind were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.

The sons of God are supposed to be angels. as it were, I don't see how they took wives when Yeshua shows us that in Matthew 20:30 Angels don't get married. I don't think that is something that demons get to do either... especially since a demon would despise a holy covenant, the concept of monogamy , would likely be more into fornication- its just doesn't track for a lot of reasons. 

 Matt 20:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

I'm trying to follow where demons getting kicked out of heaven get to be called sons of God where the scriptures say the contrary Hebrews 1

5 For to which of the angels did He ever say,
“You are My Son, Today I have fathered You”?
And again,
“I will be a Father to Him And He will be a Son to Me”?

That answer, is none.  There is no like, Angel named like, Craig or something up there that God calls a son... because if there were, this passage in Hebrews would be about Craig the adopted Angel of God, instead of being about Yeshua and the work He has done. 
So, to start with the supposition that Sons of God meant Angels, it to read into the text.
I know, some people will be like BUT JAY WHAT ABOUT THE TIMES WHERE- and I will answer that now. 

 Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.

You might think "Ha there, see, that says that angels presented themselves before the LORD" and then I would have to point out that doesn't say that angels presented themselves before the LORD, it says that the sons of God presented themselves- this verse in Job does NOT tell us who these sons are. I don't believe that they're Craig the adopted Angel of God.  I'll tell you who I do think they are in a minute but I want to at least break down the passage in full. 

• 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not remain with man forever, because he is also flesh; nevertheless his days shall be 120 years.”

So, God gets upset at Men and limits the age of Men. 

• 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of mankind, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

There you have it, these Nephilim were on the earth when the sons of God came into the daughters of mankind.  It doesn't say that the Nephilim were the sons of God, it says that they were on the earth at the time that the sons of God went for the hot chicks of the daughters of men.  Mighty men who were of old- as in early men- men of renown, as in- known reputation. 

So lets run together what it isn't before I get to what I believe it is


Gen 6 does NOT say 


Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2 that  the sons of God "the giant outcast fallen angels which would be demons that managed to retain the title of sons of God after rebelling against the Most High and being kicked out of heaven"- saw that the daughters of mankind were beautiful; and they "decided to invent marriage and monogamy and grow genitals and developed seeds and genetic code". 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not remain with man forever, because he is also flesh; nevertheless his days shall be 120 years - "And I'm punishing man because angels are trying to bone down those daughters.” 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons  "and those Angels were the sons of God" came in to the daughters of mankind "humans", and they bore children to them  "A race of half man- half demon demi-god super powered mutant people". Those were the mighty men "demi-god giants super mutants" who were of old, men  "demi-god giants super mutants" of renown.

None of that makes any sense, Its sensational for sure, but its not theologically consistent So, what would be? Lets go back to that Job verse, what ARE the sons of God? 

 Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.

We established from Hebrews and from the Messiah in Matthew that its not speaking of Craig the adopted Angel of God or Angels, so what DOES this mean that sons of God came to present themselves. 

Deuteronomy 16:16
“Three times a year all your males shall appear before the LORD your God at the place which He chooses: at the Feast of Unleavened Bread, at the Feast of Weeks, and at the Feast of Booths; and they are not to appear before the LORD empty-handed.

This puts that Job verse in context of men having to appear before God, it doesn't say anything about Angels. We have no verses calling Angels sons of God- but we do have verse calling MEN God's sons

Romans 8:14
For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons and daughters of God.

How can a demon/ fallen angel of God that was kicked out heaven be listed as "following the Spirit of God"

Luke 6:35
But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men.

John 1:12-13
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 11:52
and not for the nation only, but in order that He might also gather together into one the children of God who are scattered abroad.

The righteous are the ones that are followers of God- they are called sons. 

 Gen 4 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is too great to endure! 14 Behold, You have driven me this day from the face of the ground; and I will be hidden from Your face, and I will be a wanderer and a drifter on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.

Cain, after being one who fell his brother, an attacker had a bunch of daughters.  Note that Cain can't be called a son of God anymore, He's murdered his bro. And Cain's sons aren't called sons of God because they're murderers too 

Gen 4
 Lamech said to his wives,
“Adah and Zillah,
Listen to my voice,
You wives of Lamech,
Pay attention to my words,
For I have killed a man for wounding me;
And a boy for striking me!

So in the chapters you see two differing groups of people. Cains group - who are not sons of God - not obediant- murderers who HAVE A BUNCH OF DAUGHTERS.
- A NEPHLEM :
נְפִיל nᵉphîyl, nef-eel'; or נְפִל nᵉphil; from H5307; properly, a feller, i.e. a bully or tyrant:—giant.

Not a fallen Angel, but a Bully or Tyrant 

If you look at Gen 5 it starts out from God- with no mention of Cain in the genealogy

1¶This is the book of the generations of Adam. On the day when God created man, He made him in the likeness of God.

Contrary to 4 being about Cain being hidden from God's face

Behold, You have driven me this day from the face of the ground; and I will be hidden from Your face, and I will be a wanderer and a drifter on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

Righteous lineage- sons of God from Adam
Unrighteous lineage- many daughters and worldliness and murder and not righteous- hidden from Gods face

Now, lets read it again in context 

• Now it came about, when mankind began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them,

Mankind is multiplying and daughters are born from the men 

•  2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of mankind were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.

The genealogy of the righteous lineage that is obedient, saw that the worldly and sinful decedents of  mankind were attractive- some of those guys even taking two wives, multiple wives have been an issue for many Israelites- look at Solomon and David 

• 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not remain with man forever, because he is also flesh; nevertheless his days shall be 120 years.”

God gets upset about these righteous men being corrupted away by the worldly women which has been an issue with Israel - quite literally since the beginning of time here

• 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of mankind, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

The Nephilim were also on the earth in those days and after those days - Nephilim being a feller/bully/tyrant- AS IN ONE WHO CUTS DOWN HIS BRETHERINE IN HIS LIFE. The reference to Orion is that it is the constellation of the HUNTER- As in, HUNTER OF MEN like Cain and like Lamech, FELLERS/REBELS/APOSTATES - branching away from the ways of righteous

This is explained in Gen 6:5 

  Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of mankind was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of their hearts was only evil continually.

God wasn't grieved that fallen demons created a half race of celestial people... God was grieved that even the righteous hearts could be corrupted to wickedness. All the people were choosing wicked living except Noah. 

 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

Not because he was the only one without a demonic genetic code or some sort of demon man hybrid, but something less sensational and far less scandalous... he loved God and God loved him back. 

Look at the issue at hand with these Nephilim 

11 Now the earth was corrupt in the sight of God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 And God looked on the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for humanity had corrupted its way upon the earth.

HUMANITY HAD CORRUPTED ITS WAY, NOT DEMONS, NOT FALLEN ANGELS FROM A TEXT TAHT DOESN'T EVEN MENTION ANGELS

Mankind was choosing sin instead of God- it was choosing the way of the tyrant, the bully, the murderer.. It was full of murderers. 

 Then God said to Noah, “The end of humanity has come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence because of people; and behold, I am about to destroy them with the earth.

HE says nothing about a race of hybrid demon people. Do we believe that these Half angels survived the flood? Does that make any sense that God saw a race of demon people so He flooded the earth in order to allow MORE demon people hybrids to be made right away? 

Or... is it more to the point that there was a culture of dominance and killing the weaker and smaller, felling those that displeased you. Being a bully, A tyrant., and when the earth began to repopulate this sort of tribal savagry took place again. 

Good God, Man

I keep hearing from Unitarians that God is not a man Numbers 23:19

God is not a man, that He would lie, Nor a son of man, that He would change His mind; Has He said, and will He not do it?

And 1 Samuel 15:29

Also the Glory of Israel will not lie nor change His mind; for He is not a man, that He would change His mind.”

Both of these verses get divided into two components rather than one continuous thought
A. God is not a man 
B. that He should change His mind
 
instead of 

1.God is not a man that He would change His mind. 

That A/B break is important because it inadvertently creates a contradiction in scripture when we look at Jacob wrestling with God Almighty. 



Gen 48:3Then Jacob said to Joseph, “God Almighty appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan and blessed me

Ex 6:3

and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.

Gen 32
24 Then Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him until daybreak. 25 When the man saw that he had not prevailed against him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip; and the socket of Jacob’s hip was dislocated while he wrestled with him. 26 Then he said, “Let me go, for the dawn is breaking.” But he said, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.” 27 So he said to him, “What is your name?” And he said, “Jacob.” 28 Then he said, “Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel; for you have contended with God and with men, and have prevailed.” 29 And Jacob asked him and said, “Please tell me your name.” But he said, “Why is it that you ask my name?” And he blessed him there. 30 So Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said, “I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been spared.

Gen 35
Then God appeared to Jacob again when he came from Paddan-aram, and He blessed him. 10 God said to him,

“Your name is Jacob; you shall no longer be called Jacob,
But Israel shall be your name.”
So He called him Israel. 11 God also said to him,
“I am God Almighty;
Be fruitful and multiply;
A nation and a multitude of nations shall come from you,
And kings shall come from you.
12 And the land which I gave to Abraham and Isaac,
I will give to you,
And I will give the land to your descendants after you.”


So either (The Father)YHVH has a physical body and wrestled with Jacob, OR as Exodus states, Yeshua is in Genesis as God Almighty- called YHVH- and  He wrestled Jacob in the flesh

Ex 6:3

and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.

12 Strong

Most Messianics know that if they are a believer, they are part of Israel. 
What it seems though is that people don't seem to realize is that by nature of being a believer, you cease being a "Gentile"- and I'll elaborate what that means as the term "Gentile" can mean several things. 
 

Paul writes about being a "Jew" using the utilitarian term and not referring to everyone as being part of Judah when He says in Romans 2:28-29

 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from people, but from God.

How do we know that Paul is using the term "Jew" as a common term and not as meaning of the Tribe of Judah? Phil 3: 5

circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee;

Though Paul uses the term Jew, he makes the distinction that he's from the tribe of Benjamin, Not Judah. Paul writes in Romans 10

 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

There is no distinction between "Jew" or "Greek" but all are one. Do we see this concept elsewhere in Scripture? Yes. 

Ephesians 2
 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household

So, Non Jewish "Gentile" believers, once believing, are no longer strangers and foreigners (even though they might be called that)  because they'll be taken and thrown in the mix 
Look at Caleb, though he was a Kenizzite- A gentile, He's numbered among Judah 

Numbers 32 ‘None of the men who came up from Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I swore to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; for they did not follow Me fully, 12 except Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenizzite and Joshua the son of Nun; for they have followed the Lord fully.’ 

Numbers 13:6 from the tribe of Judah, Caleb the son of Jephunneh

Isaiah 56

Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the Lord say, The Lord will certainly separate me from His people.” Nor let the eunuch say, “Behold, I am a dry tree.” 4 For this is what the Lord says: “To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, And choose what pleases Me, And hold firmly to My covenant,5 To them I will give in My house and within My walls a memorial, And a name better than that of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name which will not be eliminated.

6 “Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord, To attend to His service and to love the name of the Lord, To be His servants, every one who keeps the Sabbath so as not to profane it, And holds firmly to My covenant;7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain, And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar; For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples.” 8 The Lord God, who gathers the dispersed of Israel, declares, “I will yet gather others to them, to those already gathered.”

Isaiah makes it clear that those in the diaspora, foreigners, will be gathered to the commonwealth of Israel Just like the Exodus and the greater exodus. It states that they shouldn't say "God will separate from the people" because they are part of the people. Remember that the greater exodus also consisted of a mixed multitude and that the "Gentiles" were mixed into the tribes. Lets look over Ezekiel 37 and the dry bones 

Then He said to me, “Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, ‘The Lord God says this: “Come from the four winds, breath, and breathe on these slain, so that they come to life.”’” 10 So I prophesied as He commanded me, and the breath entered them, and they came to life and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army.

The bloodlines of the house of Israel are broken and cut off.  
Isaiah 7:8 

 For the head of Aram is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin (now within another sixty-five years Ephraim will be broken to pieces, so that it is no longer a people)

This has happened in Ezekiel 37, but it continues 

11 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the entire house of Israel; behold, they say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope has perished. We are completely cut off.’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘This is what the Lord God says: “Behold, I am going to open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you will know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves and caused you to come up out of your graves, My people. 14 And I will put My Spirit within you and you will come to life, and I will place you on your own land. Then you will know that I, the Lord, have spoken and done it,” declares the Lord.’” The word of the Lord came again to me, saying, 16 “Now you, son of man, take for yourself one stick and write on it, ‘For Judah and for the sons of Israel, his companions’; then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and all the house of Israel, his companions.’ 17 Then put them together for yourself one to another into one stick, so that they may become one in your hand. 18 And when the sons of your people speak to you, saying, ‘Will you not declare to us what you mean by these?’ 19 say to them, ‘This is what the Lord God says: “Behold, I am going to take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will put them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.”’ 20 The sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes. 21 And say to them, ‘This is what the Lord God says: “Behold, I am going to take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king will be king for all of them; and they will no longer be two nations, and no longer be divided into two kingdoms. 23 They will no longer defile themselves with their idols, or with their detestable things, or with any of their offenses; but I will rescue them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. And they will be My people, and I will be their God.

This passage is important because we see Tribal identities of Joseph, Judah, and Ephraim. This is a Messianic passage about God gathering His people- who are identified- and bringing them together in his hand and returning them to the land for an inheritance, where Messiah Ben David will rule forever. 

“And My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd; and they will walk in My ordinances, and keep My statutes and follow them. 25 And they will live on the land that I gave to My servant Jacob, in which your fathers lived; and they will live on it, they, and their sons and their sons’ sons, forever; and My servant David will be their leader forever. 26 And I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will place them and multiply them, and set My sanctuary in their midst forever. 27 My dwelling place also will be among them; and I will be their God, and they will be My people. 28 And the nations will know that I am the Lord who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forever.”’”

This passage is about the greater exodus. Lets skip over to Ezekiel 47 where it talks about that division of land just as it was given to Jacob

Ezekiel 47:21-23
 “So you shall divide this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. 22 You shall divide it by lot for an inheritance among yourselves and among the strangers who stay in your midst, who bring forth sons in your midst. And they shall be to you as the native-born among the sons of Israel; they shall be allotted an inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel. 23 And in the tribe with which the stranger resides, there you shall give him his inheritance,” declares the Lord God.

The stranger/ foreigner becomes the tribe that he resides. This is the same command that was stated in 
Leviticus 19:34

The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt; I am the Lord your God.

Everyone would agree that the book of James is written to all believers. It would be foolishness to think that it isn't for us. What does the book of James say? It underscores this point:

James 1:1
James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad: Greetings.

At the time that the "New Testament" was being written most of the tribes were already lost in the Diaspora, However this is written in Revelation 7 referring to a time in the future

5 from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, 6 from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, 7 from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, 8 from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, and from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.

The Tribes were lost, the Tribes were cut off, the Tribes will be brought back again. Notice that in Revelation 21 there isn't a "Gentile gate" that is gone through, so we'll enter through one of the gates of the 12. 

Revelation 21
It had a great and high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names were written on the gates, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel. 13 There were three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb

Isaiah 66 talks about the end times, lets look deeper at it 

“For I know their works and their thoughts; the time is coming to gather all the nations and tongues. And they shall come and see My glory. 19 And I will put a sign among them and send survivors from them to the nations: Tarshish, Put, Lud, Meshech, Tubal, and Javan, to the distant coastlands that have neither heard of My fame nor seen My glory. And they will declare My glory among the nations. 20 Then they shall bring all your countrymen from all the nations as a grain offering to the Lord, on horses, in chariots, in litters, on mules, and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem,” says the Lord, “just as the sons of Israel bring their grain offering in a clean vessel to the house of the Lord. 21 I will also take some of them as priests and Levites,” says the Lord.

The times coming when the gathering of all nations and tongues, to the distant coastlands, shall be brought and the Lord will take some as LEVITES and priests.  Why would that distinction be important?  Who does sacrifices, the Levites.

Zechariah 14:16-21
16 Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of armies, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 17 And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of armies, there will be no rain on them. 18 And if the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no rain will fall on them; it will be the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 19 This will be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.20 On that day there will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, “Holy to the Lord.” And the cooking pots in the Lord’s house will be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Every cooking pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will be holy to the Lord of armies; and all who sacrifice will come and take of them and boil in them. And there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the Lord of armies on that day.

Think about who has been brought back to the land. It's not both Judah and Israel, its just been Judah- the Southern kingdom. 

 Jer 30
“This is what the Lord, the God of Israel says: ‘Write all the words which I have spoken to you in a book. 3 For behold, days are coming,’ declares the Lord, ‘when I will restore the fortunes of My people Israel and Judah.’ The Lord says, ‘I will also bring them back to the land that I gave to their forefathers, and they shall take possession of it.’”

Hosea 3:4
For the sons of Israel will live for many days without a king or leader, without sacrifice or memorial stone, and without ephod or household idols. 5 Afterward the sons of Israel will return and seek the Lord their God and David their king; and they will come trembling to the Lord and to His goodness in the last days.

Zeph 3
I will gather those who are worried about the appointed feasts—They came from you, Zion; The disgrace of exile is a burden on them. 19 Behold, I am going to deal at that time With all your oppressors;  I will save those who limp  And gather the scattered,  And I will turn their shame into praise and fame  In all the earth. 20 At that time I will bring you in, Even at the time when I gather you together; Indeed, I will make you famous and praiseworthy Among all the peoples of the earth, When I restore your fortunes before your eyes,” Says the Lord.

 Zech 8:Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘Behold, I am going to save My people from the land of the east and from the land of the west; and I will bring them back and they will live in the midst of Jerusalem; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God in truth and righteousness.’

 When discussing the Greater/ Second Exodus its worth looking at how the first one went. Did everyone leave as one giant group, or was there an order to the camp and group departures? We know that they camped according to tribe, are we to think that we will not camp if we have everyone walking back to the land the way they did in the Exodus? This is spelled out in Numbers 10, but Someone else paraphrased it into a succinct paragraph so I just quoted them  

"At the head of the march were the three tribes that camped on the east side of the Tabernacle: Judah in the lead, followed by Issachar and Zebulun. Behind them came the tribes that camped on the south side: Reuben, Simeon, and Gad. Following them were the tribes that camped on the west side: Ephraim, Manasseh, and Benjamin. In the rear came those who camped on the north side: Dan, Asher, and Naphtali. Each of these groups had a leading tribe: Judah in the first, Reuben in the second, Ephraim in the third, and Dan in the fourth. Each tribe had a leader who was "over the host" of the tribe. The three tribes led by Dan were the rear-guard of the camp. It was their responsibility to ensure that no stragglers were left behind in the wilderness, as it would also fall to them to ensure that no enemy succeeded in attacking them from the rear."- Source 

To put a point on all this, if you are a believer:
You're not a gentile, you will get an inheritance as part of one of the Tribes, You'll camp in the Tribes, You'll be gathered as part of the Tribes, There is only a covenant with the House of Judah and the House of Israel and then they both become the House of Israel - There is no House of Gentiles. We'll go into one of the Tribal gates- there is no Gentile gate. 

Matthew 15:24 

But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

"God is not good"

 Have you ever heard the trilemma posed by Epicurus:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

It seems pretty rational at face value doesn't it.  However if we read Proverbs 18:17 then we should examine him

"The first to plead his case seems right, Until another comes and examines him"

Let's take this piece by piece. The format of each of these is a question (A), a qualifier (B) and a conclusion (C) as exemplified 

“Is God willing to prevent evil (A), but not able?(B)  Then he is not omnipotent. (C)"

(A)Is God willing to prevent evil- Yes.   
(B) Is He unable to prevent evil- No, He IS able
(C) The conclusion that He is not omnipotent is then false. 

"(A)Is he able, (B) but not willing? (C) Then he is malevolent."

(A) Is He able- Yes 
(B) but not willing- That depends on how evil is being used for greater good 
(C) Then He is malevolent- False. This is to state that evil is without purpose. Evil is a byproduct of freewill, and something that we chose rather than God gave us. 

"(A) Is he both able and (B) willing? Then whence cometh evil?(C) "

(A) He is able
(B) He is willing 
(C) Evil comes from man, not God. 

God made the world and everything in it, Mankind included. He made everything in a state of perfection. We were in paradise with no sin, no war, no suffering. God made everything and everything was Good. Now, we as Mankind took it upon ourselves to think that we could be as God and have our eyes opened and we get to define what is and is not good and evil- and we rejected God, His word, Paradise, and goodness. We began the war with God.

If God were to eradicate all of evil, He must do away with the source that allowed it into a good world to begin with- Mankind. He would have to completely destroy humanity.  God, not out of malevolence, not out of evil, but immense grace and compassion to a people whom He loves and is patient with, has allowed evil for a time 

The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.-2 Peter 3:9

A loving and compassionate God that has allowed for a time mankind to taste of how disgusting and how awful evil is - because we chose it- and has stated that if we choose to lay down arms and stop our feeble rebellion against Him and what He deems as good, He will redeem us. That is the farthest thing from malevolence. For God to say that He'll forgive us for our continually petulant offenses to both Him and all the goodness He has given us. Romans 3 testifies to the ingratitude to God which is at the core of  the question of "Then whence cometh evil? "

 as it is written: “There is no righteous person, not even one; There is no one who understands, There is no one who seeks out God; They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt; There is no one who does good, There is not even one.”  “Their throat is an open grave,  With their tongues they keep deceiving,” “The venom of asps is under their lips”; “Their mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;  “Their feet are swift to shed blood,  Destruction and misery are in their paths,  And they have not known the way of peace.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

There are still today that will look at starving people and curse God, but they will not feed those starving people as God commanded them to. There are people that will look at homeless people and they will blame God, but they will make no effort to alleviate the homeless from their predicament. Evil exists, and continues to exist because mankind has allowed, and continues to allow it. There are many Atheist's that dogmatically and viscerally attack God and that which is good but they condemn Him as evil for their own perpetuation of evil. 

The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; Pride, arrogance, the evil way, And the perverted mouth, I hate. - Proverbs 8:13

God would be fully justified in wiping out all of humanity away that has spat in His face and said, "I understand everything created by you and for you, better than you". That is the real assertion of the core of the argument. It is to day "If God were God, why would God not do things based on my standard- of which I do not even do them myself". Even the question supposed are stealing from God as, without God what is the standard of morality in which one can even gage both good and evil? If one gages them based off a morally subjective state, then they have no standing to accuse God. 

As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to keep many people alive.- Genesis 50:20

"(A) Is he neither able (B) nor willing? Then why call him God?(C)

(A) As presented  He is Able (B) and willing, and He is God (C) 

The conclusion is that God is good. Man is not. 

Hotties

So I got a light reprimand the other day in a chat full of believers. That happens from time to time. I ruffled some feathers and evoked a fair amount of good natured teasing because I had the pernicious gall to state as a matter of fact, that I find Evangeline Lily "Hot".  Some took issue with the word "Hot" some took issue with the subject of admiration of any specific feature at all (as I did say something directly about her smile, as it makes me feel warm in my heart). Granted that one of the woman has referred to Fabio from back in the day as "hot" and some of the women have mentioned Chris Evans on more than a few occasions, But that all seemed to (mostly jokingly) fall by the way side because I mentioned Lily (who has does work about reforming Hollywood and how it treats women). Why is it such a taboo to mention attractivity? Why is that so bad and perceived as sinful by some?  Why are so many of us Puritanical when it comes to certain subjects taking if farther than the scriptural account? Look at these:

Gen 29:17
And Leah’s eyes were weak, but Rachel was beautiful in figure and appearance.

In figure and appearance??  The Bible records that Rachel was in essence, Hot. She was attractive. That is part of the story.  She was beautiful in figure. It doesn't even say which part, as some would take objection to that and we'll get to that in a moment. 

Gen 39:6
So he left Joseph in charge of everything that he owned; and with him there he did not concern himself with anything except the food which he ate. Now Joseph was handsome in form and appearance.

Its fair game for both genders. Joseph was handsome in FORM and appearance. Guy was rocking the attractive bod according to scripture and he was handsome. Do we omit that part of scripture because it may offend those that go far far beyond scripture and make even attraction a burdensome event? 

 

Gen 24:16
The young woman was very beautiful, a virgin; no man had had relations with her. She went down to the spring, filled her jar, and came up.

Oh LAWD help me, VERY beautiful... Not just beautiful but beauty in abundance. Get the burkas!!! 
What about highlighting specific feature as attractive, sure there must be some issue with that, that has to be Biblically illegal right?

1 sam 16:12
So he sent word and brought him in. Now he was reddish, with beautiful eyes and a handsome appearance. And the Lord said, “Arise, anoint him; for this is he.

1 sam 17:42
When the Philistine looked and saw David, he was contemptuous of him; for he was only a youth, and reddish, with a handsome appearance.

 

1 sam 25:3
(now the man’s name was Nabal, and his wife’s name was Abigail. And the woman was intelligent and beautiful in appearance, but the man was harsh and evil in his dealings, and he was a Calebite),

These are just handful of examples.  There is pretty much a whole book of this stuff in case this isn't enough 

Good God Almighty

I know that some people get hung up on the Divine nature of Yeshua saying that He is not God, because of the verse  in Numbers 23:19

“God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent;
Has He said, and will He not do it?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

One of the objections that people who hold to this view make, is that God- generally referencing the Father, is Spirit, and as such does not have a body or form. This creates issues of inconsistency in the Scriptures, in my opinion, but one of which we are going to look at now, this moment because I just stumbled into it, is , the subject, of The Almighty. (got a little carried away with the commas for dramatic effect, Just read it like Jeff Goldblum or William Shatner)

These are some of the issues one has to reconcile are ( in no particular order)

1. YHVH does not share glory, Yet Yeshua is worshiped by the angels of God
2. YHVH there is no Savior but me
3. YHVH made heaven and earth by His hand, Yeshua made heaven and earth by His hand
4. YHVH is King of kings and Lord of lords, But Yeshua is the King of kings and the Lord of lords
5. God is invisible, but they saw him in Exodus 24:10
6. He had hands and feet, even though He is without form

The context of each of these shows contradiction unless Yeshua and the Father are YHVH, and...how does this work:

The only >>begotten God<< who is in the bosom of >>the Father<<, He has explained Him. -John 1:18 NASB

However, I digress, lets look at Gen 35  for a second. starting in verse 1

1 Then God said to Jacob, “Arise, go up to Bethel and live there, and make an altar there to God, who appeared to you when you fled from your brother Esau.”

In the text we see that God appeared to Jacob while he was fleeing Esau, so to get context on that, we head back to chapter 32

Now as Jacob went on his way, the angels of God met him. 2 Jacob said when he saw them, “This is God’s camp.” So he named that place Mahanaim.hen Jacob sent messengers before him to his brother Esau in the land of Seir, the country of Edom.

Jakey is on his way home and he can see that the place he's in is where God camps, and he says to some angels "Hey, is my brothers still all you know, ... murdery? Go ask if we're cool. they come back and are all like

6 The messengers returned to Jacob, saying, “We came to your brother Esau, and furthermore he is coming to meet you, and four hundred men are with him.” 

Then Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him until daybreak. 25 When he saw that he had not prevailed against him, he touched the socket of his thigh; so the socket of Jacob’s thigh was dislocated while he wrestled with him. 26 Then he said, “Let me go, for the dawn is breaking.” But he said, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.” 27 So he said to him, “What is your name?” And he said, “Jacob.” 28 He said, “Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel; for you have striven with God and with men and have prevailed.” 29 Then Jacob asked him and said, “Please tell me your name.” But he said, “Why is it that you ask my name?”

Jacob is asking for the Name, but, He says "You already know my name"
Some people say that the striving with God was in the greater general sense, but the one of whom Jacob is wrestling implies that Jacob already knew.
Who does Jacob say that He was?

Gen 48:3
 Then Jacob said to Joseph, “God >>>Almighty<<< appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan and blessed me
 

Jacob states that He wrestled with God Almighty

Rev 1

Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come,>>> the Almighty.”<<<

Revelation 1 states that the one who was pierced is the Alpha and the Omega, who was, is , and is to come the ALMIGHTY. Jacob wrestled with the Lord God Almighty. 
-


YHVH made heaven and earth by his hand, Yeshua made heaven and earth by His hand
The context of each of these shows  contradiction  unless Yeshua and the Father are YHVH

Lets take a look at Hebrews 

Hebrews 1 

But of the Son He says,

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,  And the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom.

9 “You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You

With the oil of gladness above Your companions.”

10 And,

“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of Your hands; 11 They will perish, but You remain; And they all will become old like a garment,

12 And like a mantle You will roll them up; Like a garment they will also be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not come to an end.”

One thing we see in the Hebrews 1 passage is that GOD speaking of the Son says YOUR throne O GOD, pointing out the distinction of persons and also that God is also calling the Son, God.  We see the same differentiation in Amos 5 where the Lord ( YHVH ) makes the distinction from God

Amos 4 

11 “I overthrew you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah,

And you were like a firebrand snatched from a blaze;

Yet you have not returned to Me,” declares the Lord.

When we look at the distinctions and read the Hebrew 1 passage it talks about the Son being the one that made the Heavens and the Earth  

Amos 5

“Seek the Lord that you may live,

Or He will break forth like a fire, O house of Joseph,

And it will consume with none to quench it for Bethel,

7 For those who turn justice into wormwood

And cast righteousness down to the earth.”

8 He who made the Pleiades and Orion

And changes deep darkness into morning,

Who also darkens day into night,

Who calls for the waters of the sea

And pours them out on the surface of the earth,

The Lord is His name.

 The Psalmist states that YHVH is the one that made the stars in Psalms 8 

When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers,

The moon and the stars, which You have ordained - Psalms 8:3

I know I'm getting a little long with the verses here but check it out. 

Nehemiah 9

“You alone are the Lord.

You have made the heavens,

The heaven of heavens with all their host,

The earth and all that is on it,

The seas and all that is in them.

You give life to all of them

And the heavenly host bows down before You.

John 1 
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

From these two passages we again still see that there are two persons, but one entity. This Word - which we know is Yeshua from other passages, and God which we can safely say is the Father. Word was with God, and was God.  So when we look again at the passage of Nehemiah and John 1, we can see that YHVH alone made the heaven and earth, and in John it is still consistent to say that Nothing was created apart from Him. 

YHVH does not share glory, Yet Yeshua is worshipped by the angels of God

Lets look at this passage in Isaiah 48

“For My own sake, for My own sake, I will act;

For how can My name be profaned?

And My glory I will not give to another.

12 “Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called;

I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.

13 “Surely My hand founded the earth,

And My right hand spread out the heavens;

When I call to them, they stand together.

14 “Assemble, all of you, and listen!

Who among them has declared these things?

The Lord loves him; he will carry out His good pleasure on Babylon,

And His arm will be against the Chaldeans.

15 “I, even I, have spoken; indeed I have called him,

I have brought him, and He will make his ways successful.

16 “Come near to Me, listen to this:

From the first I have not spoken in secret,

From the time it took place, I was there.

And now the Lord God has sent Me, and His Spirit.”

Consider that if verse 11 is Yeshua saying that He does not share His glory with another, then why does He spend so much time giving glory to the Father?  If verse 12 is to be taken as meaning the Father, then why would verse 16 "refer to the Lord God who sent Me"  

Hebrews 1:6

 And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says,

“And let all the angels of God worship Him.”

John 12
12 On the next day the large crowd who had come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, 13 took the branches of the palm trees and went out to meet Him, and began to shout, “Hosanna! Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord, even the King of Israel.” 14 Jesus, finding a young donkey, sat on it; as it is written, 15 “Fear not, daughter of Zion; behold, your King is coming, seated on a donkey’s colt.” 16 These things His disciples did not understand at the first; but when Jesus was glorified, then they remembered that these things were written of Him, and that they had done these things to Him

King of Israel Glorified = Yeshua 

Look at this passage in Zechariah 9:14

And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one, and His name the only one.

 Unless Yeshua is overthrowing the Father as King of Israel and stealing His Glory, then it fits that Yeshua and the Father are one, as stated in John 10:30

I and the Father are One 

Not the same PERSON but both are YHVH/ God 


YHVH is King of kings and Lord of lords, But Yeshua is the King of kings and the Lord of lords

“Now, Israel, what does the Lord your God require from you, but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in all His ways and love Him, and to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, 13 and to keep the Lord’s commandments and His statutes which I am commanding you today for your good? 14 Behold, to the Lord your God belong heaven and the highest heavens, the earth and all that is in it. 15 Yet on your fathers did the Lord set His affection to love them, and He chose their descendants after them, even you above all peoples, as it is this day. 16 So circumcise your heart, and stiffen your neck no longer. 17 For the Lord your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe - Deut 10

And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. 15 From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16 And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”- Rev 19

that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which He will bring about at the proper time—He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen- 1 Tim 6

These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”- Rev 17

Deuteronomy 10:17 is stating that the King of Kings and the Lord of lords is YHVH, and the other texts provided show that King of Kings Lord of lords Title belongs to Yeshua 



YHVH there is no Savior but me

Isaiah 43

“For I am the Lord your God,

The Holy One of Israel, your Savior;

I have given Egypt as your ransom,

Cush and Seba in your place.

Luke 2:11
for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord

There is no Savior but God- but Christ is the Savior... Look at this, Were we purchased for God or are we Christs own possession? 

Titus 2

looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, 14 who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.

Rev 5
And they *sang a new song, saying,

“Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

10 “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”

Acts 20:28

28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 

...Which one is the Shepherd?

Ezekiel 34:11-16
For thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd cares for his herd in the day when he is among his scattered sheep, so I will care for My sheep and will deliver them from all the places to which they were scattered on a cloudy and gloomy day. 13 I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries and bring them to their own land; and I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, by the streams, and in all the inhabited places of the land. 14 I will feed them in a good pasture, and their grazing ground will be on the mountain heights of Israel. There they will lie down on good grazing ground and feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. 15 I will feed My flock and I will lead them to rest,” declares the Lord God. 16 “I will seek the lost, bring back the scattered, bind up the broken and strengthen the sick; but the fat and the strong I will destroy. I will feed them with judgment.

Matt 15:24
But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 

John 10:11
“I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.
John 10:27
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

-
One of the objections that I hear regarding the Divine nature of Yeshua is that God cannot be tempted and that Yeshua was tempted. Can God be tempted? 

Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

James 1:13
Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.

Psalms 78:41

Again and again they tempted God,

And pained the Holy One of Israel.

Psalm 78:56

Yet they tempted and rebelled against the Most High God

And did not keep His testimonies,

Who is the King of Israel, YHVH or Yeshua 

John 12
On the next day the large crowd who had come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, 13 took the branches of the palm trees and went out to meet Him, and began to shout, “Hosanna! Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord, even the King of Israel.

John 1:49
Nathanael answered Him, “Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel.”

Is 44

“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:

‘I am the first and I am the last,

And there is no God besides Me.

7 ‘Who is like Me? Let him proclaim and declare it;

Yes, let him recount it to Me in order,

From the time that I established the ancient nation.

And let them declare to them the things that are coming

And the events that are going to take place.

8 ‘Do not tremble and do not be afraid;

Have I not long since announced it to you and declared it?

And you are My witnesses.

Is there any God besides Me,

Or is there any other Rock?

I know of none.’”

The various personhood detailed in verse 6 of Isaiah 44 where the Lord- King of Israel and his Redeemer- The Lord of Hosts- all being stated as YHVH  should alone be enough to establish that Yeshua is YHVH, but we continue... Who is that Rock that established the ancient nation? 

1 Cor 10
For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

...and that isn't even detailing all the mentions of Him being the cornerstone that was rejected. 

-
Who can forgive sins?  

Luke 5:21
The scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, "Who is this man who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?"

At the time of Luke, the Pharisees understanding is that God alone can forgive sins. 
And they're right. They're familiar with  Exodus 23:21

Exodus 23:21  
 Be on your guard before him and obey his voice; do not be rebellious toward him, for he will not pardon your transgression, since My name is in him.

The Name is in him, HaShem,  often interchangeable with YHVH. 

Isaiah 43

I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake,

And I will not remember your sins.

26 Put Me in remembrance, let us argue our case together;

State your cause, that you may be proved right.

God is invisible, but they saw him in Exodus 24, He had hands and feet, even though He is without form, how would this work

Exodus 24

9Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10 and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. 11 Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and they ate and drank. 12 Now the Lord said to Moses, “Come up to Me on the mountain and remain there, and I will give you the stone tablets with the law and the commandment which I have written for their instruction.” 13 So Moses arose with Joshua his servant, and Moses went up to the mountain of God.

John 1:18

No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

So if no one has seen God, then who was it that Moses saw in Exodus 24? Lets look closer at the descriptors found elsewhere 

Ezekiel 1:26
 Now above the expanse that was over their heads there was something resembling a throne, like lapis lazuli in appearance; and on that which resembled a throne, high up, was a figure with the appearance of a man. 27 Then I noticed from the appearance of His loins and upward something like glowing metal that looked like fire all around within it, and from the appearance of His loins and downward I saw something like fire; and there was a radiance around Him. 28 As the appearance of the rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the surrounding radiance. Such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell on my face and heard a voice speaking.
Ezekiel 2 
 Then He said to me, “Son of man, stand on your feet that I may speak with you!” 2 As He spoke to me the Spirit entered me and set me on my feet; and I heard Him speaking to me. 3 Then He said to me, “Son of man, I am sending you to the sons of Israel, to a rebellious people who have rebelled against Me; they and their fathers have transgressed against Me to this very day. 4 I am sending you to them who are stubborn and obstinate children, and you shall say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God.’

 

Daniel 7 

9 “I kept looking Until thrones were set up, And the Ancient of Days took His seat;

His vesture was like white snow And the hair of His head like pure wool.

His throne was ablaze with flames, Its wheels were a burning fire.

10 “A river of fire was flowing And coming out from before Him;

Thousands upon thousands were attending Him, And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him; The court sat, And the books were opened.

 

Revelation 1 

 and in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and girded across His chest with a golden sash. 14 His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. 15 His feet were like burnished bronze, when it has been made to glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters. 16 In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength.

17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.

Who is this fiery white haired figure that dwells in precious stone encrusted dwellings? Scripture defines Him as the Living One who was dead but is alive forevermore.  The Lamb who was slain

saying with a loud voice,

“Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.”- Revelation 5

Who is the branch of David, YHVH or Yeshua? 

Is 42

5 Thus says God the Lord,

Who created the heavens and stretched them out,

Who spread out the earth and its offspring,

Who gives breath to the people on it

And spirit to those who walk in it,

6 “I am the Lord, I have called You in righteousness,

I will also hold You by the hand and watch over You,

And I will appoint You as a covenant to the people,

As a light to the nations,

7 To open blind eyes,

To bring out prisoners from the dungeon

And those who dwell in darkness from the prison.

8 “I am the Lord, that is My name;

I will not give My glory to another,

Nor My praise to graven images.

Psalm 110

A Psalm of David.

The LORD says to my Lord:

“Sit at My right hand

Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”

Jer 23 ( YHVH ) 

Behold, the days are coming,” declares the LORD,

“When I will raise up for David a righteous Branch;

And He will reign as king and act wisely

And do justice and righteousness in the land . “In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell securely; And this is His name by which He will be called, ‘The LORD our righteousness.’

The Child that was born will be Mighty God and also Eternal Father on the throne of David?

Isaiah 9

For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;

And the government will rest on His shoulders;

And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,

Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace,

On the throne of David and over his kingdom,

To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness

From then on and forevermore.

The zeal of the Lord of hosts will accomplish this.

The conclusion is this, that Yeshua is Ha Shem, the Name of YHVH. Yeshua was the Child born called "God with us" sent by YHVH to rule upon the throne of David, The YHVH that is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, The King of Israel. 

Matthew 1

She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.” 22 Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet: 23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which translated means, “God with us.”

Phil 2

Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped

Recently at Applebees.

 A funny thing happened to me the other day. I pulled into a parking space at the Applebees that I spend too much time at, and I parked next to a pretty sweet classic car that had the website of a Messianic community decaled on the back windshield. I admired the car as I went inside and sat down ignoring the masking restrictions. I took a quick survey of the room and saw two tall  bar tables with three men at one table and three women at the other. My intuition told me that these were the ones that had the Messianic hot-rod outside. I put in my order for some fried cheese and a chicken quesadilla and decided that I would go introduce myself.  I walked over, looked a them in the eye and zeroed in on the most confident looking man and said "that your ride out there?". "Yes" he said. "I parked next to you and admired it. I noticed the back windshield, might I ask as to what you all are doing for Sukkot?". We talked a little back and forth as they explained that they are staying local and that Sukkot will be mostly in homes with communal gatherings at their church/synagogue. Two of  the men seemed eager to meet another believer in the area and genuinely wanted me to fellowship with them. They asked me about attending on the Sabbath, and I stated that I generally can't attend fellowship due to work, and thats when the third man crossed his arms and laid out a judgement "Working on the Sabbath...well...psh". The two men that were with him gave him a stern look as if to silence the third man, but it had seemed that the third had already chosen to not speak any longer with this "Sabbath breaker"

I glanced down at the man that no longer wanted to look at me and I casually mentioned how the priests do temple service and are blameless and how there is this caveat in scripture

5 He commanded them, saying, “This is the thing that you shall do: one third of you, who come in on the sabbath and keep watch over the king’s house 6 (one third also shall be at the gate Sur, and one third at the gate behind the guards), shall keep watch over the house for defense. 7 Two parts of you, even all who go out on the sabbath, shall also keep watch over the house of the Lord for the king. 8 Then you shall surround the king, each with his weapons in his hand; and whoever comes within the ranks shall be put to death. And be with the king when he goes out and when he comes in.”9 So the captains of hundreds did according to all that Jehoiada the priest commanded. And each one of them took his men who were to come in on the sabbath, with those who were to go out on the sabbath, and came to Jehoiada the priest. 10 The priest gave to the captains of hundreds the spears and shields that had been King David’s, which were in the house of the Lord. 11 The guards stood each with his weapons in his hand, from the right side of the house to the left side of the house, by the altar and by the house, around the king. 12 Then he brought the king’s son out and put the crown on him and gave him the testimony; and they made him king and anointed him, and they clapped their hands and said, “Long live the king!”- 2 Kings 11 

Yeshua healed on the Sabbath, Preservation of life is the greatest commandment, and it is widely understood that Police and Medical personnel have a duty to that preservation of life. This premise isn't a blank check to interpret all work as life or death to justify "going your own way/ seeking your own pleasure  monetarily".  What does scripture say happened with David

3 Now therefore, what do you have on hand? Give me five loaves of bread, or whatever can be found.” 4 The priest answered David and said, “There is no ordinary bread on hand, but there is consecrated bread; if only the young men have kept themselves from women.” 5 David answered the priest and said to him, “Surely women have been kept from us as previously when I set out and the vessels of the young men were holy, though it was an ordinary journey; how much more then today will their vessels be holy?” 6 So the priest gave him consecrated bread; for there was no bread there but the bread of the Presence which was removed from before the Lord, in order to put hot bread in its place when it was taken away.

Seems illegal... unless, you know, you're preserving Life. 

As I look over and assess the interaction that I had with these men, I say that the contempt from the third man overshadowed the graciousness and warmth of the other two. I'll likely not not attend their services for reasons that were discussed about who they are and their style. I keep thinking about what would be the case if I was new to the area and knew so little about the Word of God and the appointed time of the Sabbath. What would that ignorant judgement of the third man have done? It would have isolated me from the community from the point that even if I had actually been guilty of transgressions of the Sabbath, They could have addressed then OR allowed the Holy Spirit of God to work within me in the body of other believers. 

How often do we write off those that are trying to turn to God for not being as fluent in their walk with Him as WE think that they should be? How many times do we withhold fellowship and pass judgement upon those who we deem need the word of God, when in actuality it is us that is without understanding. Do we ask ourselves that enough? 

We Know The Scriptures

We, are Messianic Believers.

We know the scriptures. We can cite the clean and unclean separation of what is and is not food from Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14. We can break down Mark 7 to the bare bones like skinning an elk in hunting season.  We can do a tactical take down of Colossians 2 in the historical context of what it means to not let someone judge you for keeping feasts. We can do a work down of how Romans 14 is about fasting and eating and not eating, and hasn't anything to do with Sabbath keeping.
We can tell you what certain words mean, and what they don't. We can tell you that Grace is not a means to sin, and define sin in 1 John 3:4 and define Love according to the book of James. We can  show you how the word Covenant is missing from two verses in Hebrews 8 but the translators added it to the text anyway. We can rightly divide the racial components of Peters vision and point to how everyone that heard the vision defined it as meaning


 We are Messianic Believers, we know the scriptures.

...but what happens when someone doesn't know the scriptures?

Do we roll in with our arsenal prepared? We're locked and loaded and ready to beat the bad doctrine out of those that oppose us?  I know I've done it. I know there are certain fights one gets into not on behalf of the opponent but for the sake of the spectators that might take hold of his bad doctrine.  How do we fight? Do we season our words with Grace? Do we even exemplify Grace at all?
Can our audience hear the word of God over our own mouths that are proclaiming it?  Why aren't they coming to truth when we HAMMER them with scriptures and SHOW them how wrong they are?  Don't they know that we're doing it out of love when we grasp Peter's words calling this ignorant and unstable for using the writings of Paul that way? When we show that our ARGUMENTS are superior, why do people not lay down their objections and join us when we've broken them to silence?

We know the scriptures.
We're Messianic Believers


There are many of us that will dig deep into the fringe and the mysticism. We'll transplant scriptures into parts of Jack and the Beanstalk  and maybe change some of the names, packaging things together and try to sell it to meek Christians as special secret knowledge of God. Why aren't they taking this?
We can tell people that Satan is trying to snare us and bring us low and therefore we must always be one step ahead of Satan by studying him and his movements and his ways and his plots and his schemes, and we'll reach into the box of scriptures to pull out justifications to use for this... like..

But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality. 22 Behold, I will throw her on a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds.And I will kill her children with pestilence, and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds. 24 But I say to you, the rest who are in Thyatira, who do not hold this teaching, who have not known the deep things of Satan, as they call them—I place no other burden on you. (rev 2)

...whoops, no that's the wrong one... you know what never mind, because know the scriptures.


We go through the Torah portions all the time and we can tell you all the cool parallels of Joseph being unrecognized by his brothers and how that parallels Messiah and the Jews. We can read about how Moses leading the mixed multitude of Israel out of Egypt being a picture of the Messiah leading us out of the bondage of sin, and how the parting of the sea is a picture of baptism into new life of freedom. We can tell you about who Jacob said that he wrestled with, and how angel doesn't always mean angel.
..because we KNOW these scriptures...


... but can we tell you the last time something in the word of God utterly crushed our heart? Can we share with you about the last time we were reading the proverbs and stepped outside our stoic images and confessed to the weight of our own sin?  Can we share our struggles with one another, or would that damage that crystalline image we have made of ourselves as holy and closest to God?
Would you think less of everything else that we know of the scriptures if we admitted that there are things that we fall short on?  When Paul boasted of his weakness, do we compare in the full measure or just the boasting part?


... We're Messianic  but are we believers?

Some will talk about being the TRUE Israel based on the melanin in their skin and talk about how they are the chosen race and those other Jews are a synagogue of satan just pretending to be real chosen, and they'll state clearly that the their tribe is black and goes all the way back to the beginning. Well, unless you factor in that the Tribes were already established by then and then Moses married a Cushite woman that Miriam was bad mouthing and she was struck by God making her skin as white as white can be... but.. thats besides the point.  Other will talk about the supremacy of Judah and how important is to be Jewish, and that talmud that gives all the deep insights of the authoritative Oral law as binding, well, except that the teachings of the rabbis were rebuked by the Messiah, but they seem to think that doing a 23 and me DNA test will surely help give one a holy edge. Or some still might even tell you that that we are not saved by works, and we're not, but also then tell you that if you aren't doing all the works set out then you're not saved. Some will tell you all about what Laws apply to Jews and what others are just for the Gentiles and never mind the fundamental flaw of that creating two separate standards of sin for humanity, forget that it predicates that God is a respecter of persons and favors one race above another, just disregard that the Scriptures state that there is neither Jew or Gentile at all as we are one in Messiah.

Do we know the scriptures?
What do we believe?

There are those that will tell you the biography of the catholic church and each conspiracy and alternate history where books that were never Scriptures were removed from the Bible for nefarious reasons keeping you from the super secret ultra truth. They'll invest hours and hours and hours pouring over the possibility and plausibility of a vast wide reaching NASA conspiracy that is contrived under the altruistic banner of keeping you fro knowing the.... let me check my notes... the true shape of the earth. They can tell you of all the theories of the dome but can they tell you about the deep crust that callouses the heart? There are those that will tell you that even slept with Satan and that the flood was the wash out God's very own ineptitude of genetic impurities and give you a discourse of the Nephilem that will make the Iliad look like a biography rooted in normalcy.

Bro do we even scripture?
What even are we...