Monday, December 13, 2021

Expanded S.O.G.

 The theories of Genesis 6 are as follow 

1. Angels mated with human women & Nephilim are offspring of Angels and human women creating giants 
2. Sons of God refers to obedient men in contrast to Daughters of men which would be secular women and Nephilim are men


Job:

Some say that Job is reference to Angels where it says in Job 1

6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.

and chapter 2

Again, there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the Lord.

The fact that "sons of God" appeared before the Lord does not automatically mean that the sons of God are angels and there is nothing in the text to support that. What is more harmonious to the totality of scripture, in my opinion, is that the sons of God are the righteous and obedient men.


If we look at Exodus 23 we see the command for the Righteous men of God to appear before God

14 “Three times a year you shall celebrate a feast to Me. 15 You shall keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread; for seven days you are to eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, at the appointed time in the month of Abib, for in that month you came out of Egypt. And no one is to appear before Me empty-handed. 16 Also you shall keep the Feast of the Harvest of the first fruits of your labors from what you sow in the field; also the Feast of the Ingathering at the end of the year when you gather in the fruit of your labors from the field. 17 Three times a year all your males shall appear before the Lord God.

Echoed in Ex 34

“The firstborn from every womb belongs to Me, and all your male livestock, the firstborn from cattle and sheep. 20 You shall redeem with a lamb the firstborn from a donkey; and if you do not redeem it, then you shall break its neck. You shall redeem all the firstborn of your sons. None are to appear before Me empty-handed.

21 “You shall work six days, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during plowing time and harvest you shall rest. 22 And you shall celebrate the Feast of Weeks, that is, the first fruits of the wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the turn of the year. 23 Three times a year all your males are to appear before the Lord God, the God of Israel. 24 For I will drive out nations from you and enlarge your borders, and no one will covet your land when you go up three times a year to appear before the Lord your God.

Look at what verse 24 says about that hedge of protection for these men that appear before God - Is this not the very thing that Satan says is applying to Job in Job 1 

 Have You not made a fence around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 


What does Job 1:1 say about Job?

There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job; and that man was blameless, upright, fearing God and turning away from evil


What did that man do? 
 

Job 2:1Again, there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the Lord.

 Job 2:3The Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man fearing God and turning away from evil. And he still holds firm to his integrity, although you incited Me against him to ruin him without cause



That Sons of God are a classification of people that do righteousness, and those that don't are not sons of God, is affirmed in scripture time and again. 

1 John 3:10
No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother and sister.

Ergo, the men of righteousness appearing before the Lord at the appointed times would be in line with Men, and not angels , being the sons of God.


The comparison to Job 38 can be made in several points but Job 38:7 being used to say that sons of God means angels is still an injection of that interpretation to the text when the text doesn't suppose it. .

7 When the morning stars sang together 
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 “Or who enclosed the sea with doors
When it went out from the womb, bursting forth;
9 When I made a cloud its garment,
And thick darkness its swaddling bands,
10 And I placed boundaries on it
And set a bolt and doors,

In this passage we see creative imagery and not literal things. The sea is not enclosed with doors, and it didn't come from the womb, clouds aren't clothes- morning stars and sons of God shouting for joy doesn't mean that sons of God are angels.

 Lets also take a look at the contrast found in Psalms 148 where it appears that Angels are a separate classification from both the sun and moon that give praise, as well as these  Humans that praise Him 

Psalm 148 

 Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens;  Praise Him in the heights!
2 Praise Him, all His angels; Praise Him, all His heavenly armies!
3 Praise Him, sun and moon; Praise Him, all stars of light!
4 Praise Him, highest heavens, And the waters that are above the heavens!
5 They are to praise the name of the Lord, For He commanded and they were created.
6 He has also established them forever and ever; He has made a decree, and it will not pass away.
7 Praise the Lord from the earth, Sea monsters, and all the ocean depths;
8 Fire and hail, snow and clouds; Stormy wind, fulfilling His word;
9 Mountains and all hills; Fruit trees and all cedars;
10 Animals and all cattle; Crawling things and winged fowl;
11 Kings of the earth and all peoples; Rulers and all judges of the earth;
12 Both young men and virgins; Old men and children.
13They are to praise the name of the Lord, For His name alone is exalted;
His majesty is above earth and heaven.
14 And He has lifted up a horn for His people, Praise for all His godly ones,
For the sons of Israel, a people near to Him. Praise the Lord!

When Job 38:7 is read and stars singing next to sons of God shouting as some choose to say that because these are side by side and in the same event they MUST both be the same, we are obligated to reason the same manner to Psalm 148 and disregard all context and say that everything is angels.  Sun, moon, angels, Israel, the sea, fire, hail, clouds, all of it is now angels. 

A critique of this explanation is that it must be grounded as a metaphor. Morning stars and sons of God at creation are speaking to a "thing" and are not metaphoric in of themselves. 
This is a fair criticism. 

If it is not metaphor, is there text that places sons of God as men there rather than the injection of angels?  For this let us look back  at Genesis. 


 Gen 1 Then God said, “Let Us make mankind in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the livestock and over all the earth, and over every crawling thing that crawls on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.
During creation, Mankind was made.
Look at it in Chapter 5 
This is the book of the generations of Adam. On the day when God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them “mankind” on the day when they were created

Chapter 5 is stating on that day of Creation, When God created man, He created THEM, Male and Female, Mankind- made in the image of God.
Mankind- plural
Them- plural
During creation to some degree- Adam, the son of God (contained within him a plurality)  and he likely shouted for joy as was a reason man was created. 

When Adam has a son, it says he made his son in the likeness of Adam, this is the same language that is used for God making Adam for Adam making his son. Does Scripture say anywhere that angels were created in the image of God, that they may be called sons?

Scripture doesn't even mention Angels in Genesis chapter 1 or 2 creation accounts. Adam is mentioned. Eve is mentioned. Mankind is mentioned. Angels are not. So, to take Job and put angels there doesn't fit. Luke 3:38 states that Adam was a son of God the same way Genesis 5 does through genealogy 

38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Adam in a pre-sin perfect state would be in perfect obedience to God and fit BOTH qualifications of definition of sons of God 


Furthermore, Since Job 38 must have a grounding for its spring boarding, then lets take a look at the importance of Hebrews 1 

5For to which of the angels did He ever say,
You are My Son,
Today I have fathered You”?
And again,
I will be a Father to Him
And He will be a Son to Me”?


Granted this about the Messiahship of the Savior, but if this implicates that God never said to angels you are My Son or Sons, they are not sons of God... but People are.  If such could be said about angels, then the answer to the question posed here would be "Steve the angel son of God" or "Todd the angel, God's son" But since it is not the case, we have to ask "Can we find a single example in scripture where an angel is called a son? We do have examples of God calling men sons of God.  

You are sons of the Lord your God; you shall not cut yourselves nor shave a bald spot above your forehead for the dead. For you are a holy people to the Lord your God, and the Lord has chosen you to be a people for His personal possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.- Deut 14:1-2
“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God.- Matthew 5:9
For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons and daughters of God.- Romans 8:14
For the eagerly awaiting creation waits for the revealing of the sons and daughters of God.- Romans 8:19

 “I will call those who were not My people, ‘My people,’
And her who was not beloved, ‘beloved.’”26 “And it shall be that in the place where it was said to them, ‘you are not My people,’ There they shall be called sons of the living God.”27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, “Though the number of the sons of Israel may be like the sand of the sea, only the remnant will be saved; - Romans 9:25-27
For you are all sons and daughters of God through faith in Christ Jesus.- Galatians 3:26
Because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying out, “Abba! Father!” - Galatians 4:6


 

Nephilim:


It is said that the Nephilim were the offspring of the Sons of God and the daughters of men, but verse 4 seems to show that in the days prior and after the Sons of God married the daughters of mankind - these Nephilim already existed:

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of mankind, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown

- and it states that these Nephilim were men.

We see in Genesis 4 that Cain is now disowned and hidden from God's face on account of the violence that he enacted on his brother. 

Behold, You have driven me this day from the face of the ground; and I will be hidden from Your face, and I will be a wanderer and a drifter on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

Cain has no claim to be a son of God and should now go by a different designation, this is one group. It continues on in Chapter 4 

To Seth also a son was born; and he named him Enosh. Then people began to call upon the name of the Lord.


This is now another designation separate from that of Cain and his murderous son who have been marked so that the world would know that they're murderers. This group of believers would be another designation, leaving another designation of secular people that are neither murderers/ people of violence nor are they believers 

Side note, Genesis 5 mirrors the genealogy of the Messiah in Luke 3:37-38 which states that Adam was son of God

37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalaleel, the son of Cainan, 38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God

If we were to go from Gen 4, to Gen 5, to Gen 6 with these groups  it might look like this:

Gen 4- Cain and his sons are murderers/ Nephilim ( fellers of men, Men of renown seeing as God put a mark on Cain) 
Gen 5 - sons of God genealogy of the Messiah containing generations of believers who began to call on God as stated in chapter 4 (along with others) 
Gen 6 -  Daughters of mankind- secular women , perhaps offspring of Cain and his camps 

Lets look at gen 6 in this context 


Now it came about, when mankind  began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God  [Men who had been calling on God ] saw that the daughters of mankind  [secular women, off spring of the murderers camps] were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not remain with man forever, because he is also flesh; nevertheless his days shall be 120 years.” 4 The Nephilim [ First murderers, fellers of men, killers] were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God [Believing group that to this point had been righteous] came in to the daughters of mankind, [Secular unbelieving women] and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of mankind was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of their hearts was only evil continually. 6 So the Lord was sorry that He had made mankind on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 Then the Lord said, “I will wipe out mankind whom I have created from the face of the land; mankind, and animals as well, and crawling things, and the birds of the sky. For I am sorry that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

Now we have to ask critically, if the flood was to destroy this race of half angels half men that spawned giants as some theorize , Then why do we see a re-emergence of giants after the flood that was to wipe them out? There is no record of these "fallen angels" coming back to take human wives a second time after the flood and thus create again a race of giants. We must account for that absence. 

Though I do NOT hold the Septuagint to be reliable, take a look at this from Genesis 10: 


Now Cush fathered Nimrod; he became a mighty one on the earth. 9 He was a mighty hunter before the Lord; therefore it is said, “Like Nimrod a mighty hunter before the Lord.” 

8 And Chus begot Nebrod: he began to be a giant upon the earth. He was a giant hunter before the Lord God; therefore they say, As Nebrod the giant hunter before the Lord. 

This is explained in Gen 6:5 

  Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of mankind was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of their hearts was only evil continually.

The case presented from Jude and Peter 

What does 2 Peter 2 say that the subject is :

But false prophets also appeared among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves

The topic is a group among the faith group, presenting ideas and heresy that leads to destruction. 

And angels who did not keep their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling place, these He has kept in eternal restraints under darkness for the judgment of the great day, 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in sexual perversion and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.- 2 Peter


The way that proponents of  "angels are sons" of God read verse 7 is to tie it to Genesis 6, suggesting that angels entered into sexual perversion like Sodom and Gomorrah. It understandable how one might take that view but I believe that its a mistake. A counter perspective is that Jude is talking about groups that were once thought secure and then became destroyed.  

1:5 Now I want to remind you, though you know everything once and for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.

Believers, saved from Egypt -destroyed
Angels , removed from heaven- to place of destruction
Sodom and Gomorrah - place of destruction. like surrounding cities, going to place of destruction. 

The emphasis being not to compromise from obedience to following after lusts- not just sexual lusts, sin. There is no reason to be hyperfocal on sexual sin when the passage is about not succumbing to any of the fleshly lusts. That can include eating things that are not food according to God. That can include harboring malice. The word for desire or "lusts of the flesh" are Strong's G1939, The same word used here:


Luke 22:15 And He said to them, “I have eagerly G1939 desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer


This isn't some sexual perversion in wanting to keep the Passover. That is not a freaky sex thing that Paul is suggesting. It would be wrong to promote such a view. 

Lets look at the Jude passage as it reads from 2 Peter 2 

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, held for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example of what is coming for the ungodly; 7 and if He rescued righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the perverted conduct of unscrupulous people 8 (for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds), 9 then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from a trial, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, 


Note that Jude and Peter are practically the same, the emphasis is about not losing a place of security for a place of destruction. Also again, important to highlight is verse 4

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, held for judgment 

Hell, Darkness, Held for Judgement... none of that is taking human wives. 


Looking further, certain places God refers to humans as judges, and the word is "Elohim" but instead of being rendered as judge, its rendered as god. 

 "The Lord answered Moses: See! I have made you a god to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother will be your prophet." Ex  7

Deuteronomy 32:8-9 is a questionable text and subject of criticism as some render it this way:

 When the Most High allotted each nation its heritage,
    when he separated out human beings,
He set up the boundaries of the peoples
    after the number of the divine beings;
9 But the Lord’s portion was his people;
    his allotted share was Jacob.


"AHa "they say, "this is clearly about angels". But the text in other translations say:


When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance,
When He separated the sons of mankind,
He set the boundaries of the peoples
According to the number of the sons of Israel.
9 For the Lord’s portion is His people;
Jacob is the allotment of His inheritance.

An argument I have heard is that this has to refer to angels because Israel didn't exist when God separated the borders. This is a strange objection because we know that He set the boundaries for Israel with Israel in mind, telling Abraham all the land that He would give to Israel his descendants. An entire covenant was made over it. 
Some say that this text originally read "sons of God" but was altered because it may cause confusion and people might believe it to be angels.  



For the next part I respond to objections that were left on Facebook. 

"First, Son of God being a term for righteous human men is said to be the mystery unveiled to Paul in Ephesians 1, in which Paul states that mankind being adopted as sons of God is part of “the mystery of God’s will having been made known to us” “at the fullness of the dispensation of time.” A mystery is something that was once hidden or not easily or plainly seen. The context in the B’rit is very different than the context in the Tanakh. One is a mystery. The other is not."


Second, every Tanakh passage involving SOG refers to something other other than humans:

This is demonstratably false unless you were to suggest that God is commanding Angels to maintain their beards as set apart from among the nations:

You are sons of the Lord your God; you shall not cut yourselves nor shave a bald spot above your forehead for the dead. For you are a holy people to the Lord your God, and the Lord has chosen you to be a people for His personal possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.- Deut 14:1-2

I said, “You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High. -Psalm 82 :6

Yet the number of the sons of Israel
Will be like the sand of the sea,
Which cannot be measured or counted;
And in the place
Where it is said to them,
“You are not My people,”
It will be said to them,
“You are the sons of the living God.”- Hosea 1:10


1) The being in the fire with Hannaniah, Azariah, and Mishael.

25 He responded, “Look! I see four men untied and walking about in the middle of the fire unharmed, and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods!


2) Job 1, for there were no pilgrimage and feastly gatherings of the entire Body of Yah before the sinai covenant and,
The Torah has been from the beginning, it was only ratified at Sinai. I believe that a form of Torah told Cain and Able to sacrifice even though Cain offered the wrong sacrifice. I believe that Noah knew the difference between clean and unclean animals because of this Torah that existed, and was likely taught to Adam as he walked with God in the cool of the day. As one other commented, Job is already aware of offering sacrifices on behalf of his children because he didn't know if they had sinned in their hearts- this speaks to a system already in place. 



Job 38, for these SOG sang God’s praises during the creation event before man was created. Even if we believe the sethite theorists, adam and eve were not redeemed or saved or made incorruptibly righteous by Yeshua’s blood (the B’rit’s definition for SOG), therefore the “righteous SOG” definition for men cannot apply to adam and eve.


Adam and Eve need only be in a righteous state to be SOG. This indisputably applies to the pre-fall state of being , especially in a metaphoric passage where sarcasm and grandiose illustration are being used on behalf of God to convey significance to Job. 

3) Specifically, genesis 6 uses Sons of God in contrast to _mankind_ multiplying over the face of the earth. Then there is second more specific distinction made between sons of God and daughters of men. The specific context of genesis 6 strongly points toward SOG being something other than “mankind.” The Mesopotamian context of Genesis is filled with examples of heavenly beings coming down to interact in various ways with humans. Genesis unveils the truth of that interaction and that it wasn’t a blessing from above but a cursed interaction.

Unless you're interpreting it incorrectly and Sons of God isn't to contrast mankind, but contrasts Daughters of Men and contrast Nephilim.  The context of Genesis 6 points to an only human affair that involves 3 parties of humans. Believers, Secular, and Violent murderers. I do my best to use scripture to define scripture, not mix it with Mesopotamian theology or theology of surrounding cultures.  

Gen 4- Cain and sons murder take multiple wives 
Gen 5 starting in the end of chapter 4, Men and women began calling on God at this time- List of men and women that began calling on God, as listed in Luke in the genealogy of the Messiah 
Gen 6 - intermixing of Believers being swayed by hot secular women which has been an issue for the church forever.  If you wanted to discuss the un-natural sexual component of Jude/ Lusts, maybe start with believers being swayed by multiple wives like Cain's sons. This still fits in the human context. 

Further, regarding “daughters of men” it is assumed that these are of the line of cain, but the text doesn’t say that in the slightest. One cannot just assume the conclusion. It must be demonstrated that sons of God equal descendants of seth and daughters of men equal women of the line of cain.

Its possible that they were the daughters of Cain's camp, or could be non-believing women that left the group of believing men. Regardless they're secular. 

Additionally, the sethite theory can not be shown to exist prior to the greco-roman philosophizing so called “church fathers.” It first appears in the writings of Julius Africanus (180CE-250CE). Not only does the angelic theory best harmonize with the mesopotamian context of Genesis, it clearly pre-exists the sethite theory by centuries and is the universal view of the 2nd temple period as evidenced by the B’rit’s epistles of Jude, 2 Peter, and non-cannonical “1 Enoch.”

Should we view scripture in light of Egyptian theology? Shall we say that sons of God are dog headed people that run the ferry to the underworld? How many lies should we carry because others have carried them first?  People like to slap label's on things in order to make them easier to pigeonhole rather than do the work in the scriptures independently to seek a matter out. Those who object to humans being Sons of God as the scriptures show, often try to box my position as Sethite, a banner of which I had not studied nor rallied under. Let the fullness of scripture bear witness and the word of God define itself. Should we adopt the Pharisees view of the Messiah and therefore disqualify the Truth of the Savior simply because its what the culture understood at the time? 

I’ll go on to rebut a few of your main points:
First, your point from Hebrews 1. Which of the angels has God said “you are my son?” (In which, the author is quoting Psalm 2 and the Baptism accounts). This is not proof that angels are not “SOG.” This is proof that the only begotten Son of God is not an angel which inherits the kingdoms of the earth. He in whom we have our inheritance is not a mere angel, but is greater than the angels. The only begotten Son and “sons of God” are distinct terms even in the tanak. For, sons of god and angels are ministering spirits sent to aid humans. The Son is to sit at the right hand of the power and be Lord (mark 12 and psalm 110). The main point of Hebrews 1 is to define the person and origin of Christ and distinguish the Son from angels. It’s purpose is not to say sons of God aren’t angels. This passage is being taken out of context.

I agree that the entire point is to show Christ and His Messiahship ...yet, if Angels are called sons of God then then entire point is lost.  Can a single verse that says the word angel and sons of God be found together where angels are the ones being called sons of God? Several can be found for humans. 


Second, your point about angels not marrying. Jude says the angels left their heavenly estate.
 ... and as cast down in fallen state, why should they be called sons of God? They left heaven and were cast into hell into darkness awaiting judgment. 

... Matthew and Luke say “angels do not marry in heaven.”

Genesis 6 says that they took women on the earth and took wives.

Genesis 6 says that sons of God, of which no scripture says are angels but several say refers to humans, took wives.  I have cited numerous verses that state that HUMANS are sons of God in the same verse. There has been zero verses provided that state Angels are sons of God- only innuendo and potential shoehorning angels into an ambiguous text. The word Angel appears nowhere in Genesis 6. Circular reasoning is being applied to this text to say Angels is what is here, therefore Angels is elsewhere. 


 Angels/SOG taking wives on earth does not contradict what Yeshua says in Matthew 22 about angels not being given to marry in heaven.
 ( I separated a portion because I wanted to address them separately below)

In the context of Peter and Jude that state over and over and over again that those that choose rebellion against God do not stay in the state of right standing and are therefore cast down, cast out, and destroyed, placed in chains waiting judgement, in the pit...  there is ZERO reason to believe that these would be referred to as sons of God. 
Lastly, in regard to “angels do not have genitals.” Angels do not naturally have carnal forms. They’re spiritual beings. When they manifest in creation, they manifest in the appearance of men. In the narrative with Sodom and Gomorrah: They ate with Abram. They grab Lot with hands. It’s not a stretch to say that when they take physical form in the appearance of men that they appear as biological men in every way, including their genitals.)


There is a growing list of things we have to make allowances for in order for that to work
1. Angels cannot give into marriage in HEAVEN so in order to give into marriage, they have to leave heaven. 
2. Scripture state that once they left heaven they were cast into the pit awaiting judgement- not taking wives, but if we set that aside for the time we still have to make allow for a second that God let this happen - cast them out of heaven but let them take wives
3. after being cast out of heaven and they chose to take wives, by what claim would they be called sons of God? IF we see that Yeshua has distinction that those that do the will of God will be called sons of God but OTHERS of disobedience are of the devil- how then do we get the designation that these devils are called sons of God? 
4. Ignoring that and say that these fallen angels were allowed to take wives, and that before this happened Nephilim existed- and also after this happened Nephilim existed per the scripture- These "angels" had to develop genital's in order to procreate
5. Those fallen angels after the judgement of the flood that cleansed all the earth and creation washing away that race of giants spawned by angels and earth women- would have to have done this a second time in order to produce giants after the flood. 

If they weren't cast into the pit as scripture states, and IF they could take wives as long as they were outside of heaven , and IF they could develop genitals, and IF they could sire a race of Giants and IF  the flood was to wash away those Giants because God was mad at angels taking hot wives-
why is there no account of this happening again after the flood where giants re-appeared 

Its MOST reasonable that instead of this mosaic of hypotheticals that if you look at in the specific way COULD maybe fit, Sons of God are humans which fits perfectly. 




Jude ties these passages together and makes it clear that the angels who left their first estate went after strange flesh. The Holy Spirit inspired Jude to connect angelic sin with sexual sin. Only Genesis 6 matches those details.

Jude only says that if you read that in the text. Have you ever read that sentence that can have 7 different meaning depending on where you put the emphasis

" “I never said she stole my money""
 “I NEVER said she stole my money"
 “I never SAID she stole my money"
 “I never said, SHE stole my money"
 “I never said she STOLE my money"
 “I never said she stole MY money"
 “I never said she stole my MONEY"
This is a way people look at Jude. This commentator tries to say that Jude makes it clear that the subject is a fleshly sex scandal with the Angels, and not the issue that even Angels were in heaven - a place most any of us would think would be safe from falling and we would be able to dwell securely- and were cast out. Just as Sodom and Gomorrah were places that were destroyed and the surrounding places were destroyed- not dwelling securely because they went after strange flesh. The focal point is not a celestial sex scandal, its trusting that you're dwelling securely when you can be removed and destroyed. 

2 Peter is entirely about "groups" that think that they're secure, and then they are not. Angels thinking they're secure in heaven and then falling, JUST LIKE SODOM AND GOMORRAH acting bold thinking they were secure before they were destroyed, JUST like those who are in the church teaching heresies and destructive and perverse doctrines think that they are secure before they are destroyed.


Another point to ponder.  IF the Nephilim were men like Cain that were taking multiple wives and murdering men- would that fit God saying that he destroyed the world because of violence? 
What if that same sort of practice began again after the flood and those murderers- fellers of men were up to the same customs as Cain and his sons? Could that explain why Abraham was so afraid 


 Now there was a famine in the land; so Abram went down to Egypt to live there for a time, because the famine was severe in the land. 11 It came about, when he was approaching Egypt, that he said to his wife Sarai, “See now, I know that you are a beautiful woman; 12 and when the Egyptians see you, they will say, ‘This is his wife’; and they will kill me, but they will let you live. 13 Please say that you are my sister so that it may go well for me because of you, and that I may live on account of you.” 14 Now it came about, when Abram entered Egypt, that the Egyptians saw that the woman was very beautiful. 15 Pharaoh’s officials saw her and praised her to Pharaoh; and the woman was taken into Pharaoh’s house. - Gen 12 


And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
 Now the earth was corrupt in the sight of God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 And God looked on the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for humanity had corrupted its way upon the earth.- Gen 6 

Lamech took two wives for himself: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other, Zillah Lamech said to his wives,

“Adah and Zillah,
Listen to my voice,
You wives of Lamech,
Pay attention to my words,
For I have killed a man for wounding me;
And a boy for striking me!
24 If Cain is avenged seven times,
Then Lamech seventy-seven times!”- Gen 4


In conclusion everywhere it says sons of God, rather than doing 6 or 7 "what if, could be, maybe if" steps, just put humans there because its 1 step and it fits. 

There are NO scriptures that say Angels are the sons of God in the same sentence the way that numerous verses that say humans ARE. 

 Exodus 4:22-23
 Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘This is what the Lord says: “Israel is My son, My firstborn. 23 So I said to you, ‘Let My son go so that he may serve Me’; but you have refused to let him go. Behold, I am going to kill your son, your firstborn.”’”


Hebrews 4 = Ezekiel 20

 Ezekiel 20: 8-24Then I resolved to pour out My wrath on them, to accomplish My anger against them in the midst of the land of Egypt. 9 But ...